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  1. #31
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Its interesting to see you say all that JHB because the position of the New Right in the eighties in the UK which was extremely libertarian, in a free market sense at least but also going beyond that to legalising blackmail, vote buying and the sale of organs, and they sold their free market economics as in tune with anglo-saxon culture. It was very racialised.

    To be honest the right wing is going to swing between supposed "economic man" and "cultural man" as it suits, whatever's popular and wins votes. I dont believe that either are perfect reflections of how people actually are, they're ideological constructs, behaviourial economics is less myopic and blinkered than the versions you're fronting but I'll bet you'll consider them bunk if their findings dont conform to your theory.

    So far as race goes, well the racists used to be southern democrats, then they became republicans, now they're libertarians, whatever ideology suits as a flag of convenience for them.

    People are talking about how Rand will be labelled and if it'll lose him support it could win him support, in the UK the conservative party became popular because they suggested that proprietors of B&Bs who didnt want to offer a service to homosexuals should be permitted to run their service how they liked.

    Its unlikely that there's going to be a debate about why anyone would refuse a service to anyone, instead how whether or not they can, and they already can, they just cant be open or honest about it, they've got to convive and deceive because its an outlaw thing to do. I'd prefer people talke about why, instead that's taboo, sexism, racism, sectarianism, identity politics, in so many ways attempts to create equality have just translated into being unable to talk about the thing without people getting hot headed.

  2. #32
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Julian Sanchez wrote a great article about this situation in Newsweek.

    Why Rand Paul Is Right and Wrong - Newsweek.com
    Unfortunately, history happened. Rules for utopia can deal with individual crimes—the mugger and the killer and the vandal—but they stumble in the face of societywide injustice. They tell us the state shouldn't sanction the brutal enslavement or humiliating legal subordination of a people; they have less to say about what to do once we have. They tell us to respect the sanctity of the property rights that would arise as free people tamed the wilderness in John Locke's state of nature. They have less to say about the sanctity of property built on generations of slave sweat and blood...

    The central fact obscured by our polarized political discourse is that Rachel Maddow and Rand Paul don't inhabit completely alien moral worlds. The value of free association, in commercial as well as private life, is and ought to be a liberal value. The call for justice from victims of a criminal state should ring in libertarian ears. Both should hope to see a better world, where bigots' desire to gather together in their own sterile haunts could be not only tolerated but positively welcomed as a favor to the rest of us.
    QFT
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  3. #33
    Senior Member JHBowden's Avatar
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    Lark, I might be a racist, depending on how 'racist' is defined, but I don't believe either Ron Paul or Rand Paul are racists, and I don't believe the overwhelming percentage their supporters are racists either.

    If anything, the appeal of the Pauls is similar to the appeal of Barack Obama in 2008.

    The events on 9-11 were a huge shock for most Americans. It had the uncomfortable implication that we're not completely in control of our lives, which contradicts everything we hear from Hollywood daily-- always follow your dream, be yourself, the American dream BS.

    Rather than face reality, some constructed a different narrative. Our foreign policy troubles are really our own fault. If we were nicer, more gentle, more accommodating, then everyone would like us, and there wouldn't be events like 9-11. It is people like George W. Bush who make the world hate us, and if we would elect a sensitive person, then we can live in the innocent, magical pre-911 world again.

    See, America is still in control. We can still keep our happy Mickey Mouse views of reality. We don't need anything unpleasant like wars-- in fact, those are the problem.

    So in 2004-- all of these Paulians sprouted up everywhere, touting themselves as the "true conservatives," dominating college campuses, Youtube and the rest of the internetz-- the message of making America nicey wicey really had an appeal to *young people*, not crusty old racists. Just go back to Murican non-coercive non-interventionist principles, and we can live like it was before. Man, just be, like, non-judgmental, y'know?

    Now that Obama has been elected, the stupidity of this attitude is starting to shine through. Yes, terrorists still want to kill us. Yes, the Europeans are still as unhelpful and irrelevant as ever, returning Obama's useless happy talk with useless happy words of their own. Yes, the UN is still the thugs and dictators club. So calls to "get back to the Constitution" & "get back to principle so others will like us" as a cure-all don't resonate the same way they did during 2004-2008. It is not like things change by having someone who really cares say abracadabra. And the progressives are definitely not going to allow talk about America becoming a fascist dictatorship go unpunished when their guy is in charge. So the magic appeal to the non-intervention principle, from war to racial discrimination, just doesn't look as sexy these days, when sentiment proves so difficult to dislodge.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHBowden View Post
    The events on 9-11 were a huge shock for most Americans. It had the uncomfortable implication that we're not completely in control of our lives, which contradicts everything we hear from Hollywood daily-- always follow your dream, be yourself, the American dream BS.

    Rather than face reality, some constructed a different narrative. Our foreign policy troubles are really our own fault. If we were nicer, more gentle, more accommodating, then everyone would like us, and there wouldn't be events like 9-11. It is people like George W. Bush who make the world hate us, and if we would elect a sensitive person, then we can live in the innocent, magical pre-911 world again.

    See, America is still in control. We can still keep our happy Mickey Mouse views of reality. We don't need anything unpleasant like wars-- in fact, those are the problem.

    So in 2004-- all of these Paulians sprouted up everywhere, touting themselves as the "true conservatives," dominating college campuses, Youtube and the rest of the internetz-- the message of making America nicey wicey really had an appeal to *young people*, not crusty old racists. Just go back to Murican non-coercive non-interventionist principles, and we can live like it was before. Man, just be, like, non-judgmental, y'know?

    Now that Obama has been elected, the stupidity of this attitude is starting to shine through. Yes, terrorists still want to kill us.
    So people expected Obama's attacks on Islamic countries to be met with love, while Bush's attacks were met with hate?

    So people expected a big, bad war in Afghanistan to cause blowback under Bush, but a bigger, badder war in Afghanistan & Pakistan under Obama should not cause blowback? Because Obama's bombs and bullets are nicer and more compassionate when they kill civilians?

  5. #35
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHBowden View Post
    If anything, the appeal of the Pauls is similar to the appeal of Barack Obama in 2008.
    The most important trait they share is that they don't use fear to get votes, something neo-cons have down to a science.

    Rather than face reality, some constructed a different narrative. Our foreign policy troubles are really our own fault. If we were nicer, more gentle, more accommodating, then everyone would like us, and there wouldn't be events like 9-11. It is people like George W. Bush who make the world hate us, and if we would elect a sensitive person, then we can live in the innocent, magical pre-911 world again.
    I've never met anyone who wants "everyone to like us". Acknowledging that GWB's administration was really bad at diplomacy is not a sign of weakness. To imply that we only have the choice of being either a "bully" or a "pussy" is false.

    See, America is still in control. We can still keep our happy Mickey Mouse views of reality. We don't need anything unpleasant like wars-- in fact, those are the problem.
    You constantly mischaracterize the beliefs of...well...pretty much everyone.

    So in 2004-- all of these Paulians sprouted up everywhere, touting themselves as the "true conservatives," dominating college campuses, Youtube and the rest of the internetz-- the message of making America nicey wicey really had an appeal to *young people*, not crusty old racists. Just go back to Murican non-coercive non-interventionist principles, and we can live like it was before. Man, just be, like, non-judgmental, y'know?
    I sense a lot of resentment here.

    blah blah blah...
    Your opinions are based on so many false premises, it would take an enormous amount of time to refute all of your beliefs, more time than I am willing to devote.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #36
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    ^^^:yim_rolling_on_the_
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  7. #37
    Senior Member iamathousandapples's Avatar
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    Oh great, now he's saying he wants to repeal the 14th amendment. What the hell. How does this guy still have a chance in the running? I weep for my state.

  8. #38
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    This has to do with children of illegal immigration, and how parents obtain US citizen ship that way. It's probably about a rewrite.

  9. #39
    Senior Member iamathousandapples's Avatar
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    Well you don't do that with repealing the entire amendment that's for sure, that has more to do with adding onto it, perhaps with court cases(Which HAS been done before). No no no, I'm pretty sure he wants to completely scratch it out, especially the Equal Protection clause, which provided the basis for Brown v. Board of Education and countless subsequent civil rights amendments including the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which he HAS said he is completely against. Seriously, how people are claiming the "Rand Paul is a racist" tag won't stick baffles me considering he's done all but scream it out loud on national TV.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamathousandapples View Post
    yadda yada ...which he HAS said he is completely against.......
    Complete lie. There was a single entry in there he didn't agree with, but not that he would do anything about it...he's interested in more important issues.

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