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  1. #1
    Ginkgo
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    Default Pakistan Blocking Facebook in Response To "Draw Muhammad Day"

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2Uma211DVU"]Draw Muhammad[/YOUTUBE]

    Alright, so, apparently someone draped a facebook group with "Draw Muhammad" propaganda, encouraging people on youtube and facebook to observe this occasion by expressing artistic sacrilege. Now Pakistan, and possibly other Islamic countries, are going to censor facebook. What do you think?

    I have always been confused about censorship, and why people are offended about the expressions of certain things that violate sacred subjects. I suppose my confusion stems from the fact that I think that free speech should be more sacred than anything, whether a person is slandering a subject, or promoting it. The freedom to express oneself should be the highest common denominator in any society, imho. But of course, I'm speaking from my own cultural bubble.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Every media outlet in the world should publish numerous images of Muhammad, over and over and over and over again, so much that Muslims get desensitized to the idea. And everyone should do it so no single media outlet can be singled out.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #3
    Sniffles
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    How can freedom of speech be more sacred than anything else?

  4. #4
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    How can freedom of speech be more sacred than anything else?
    Spoken like a fundamentalist.

  5. #5
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    Spoken like a fundamentalist.
    Except I'm not a fundamentalist. Nice try though.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    How can freedom of speech be more sacred than anything else?
    It's not, but it's up there. It's a fundamental part of a free society.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #7
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It's a fundamental part of a free society.
    I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just challenging the assertion that it's supposedly sacred above everything else.

  8. #8
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Except I'm not a fundamentalist. Nice try though.
    Except he said you were merely speaking like one.

    This is where things get tricky- what's the standard, and why is it in place? Me? I don't like standards, and I secretly agree with lateralus.

    However, let's say that the U.S. extricates the standard on any and all graphic content. For instance, the porn industry overflows into the streets for children to pick up at their leisure. I mean, there are some pretty raunchy things out there on the internet, and I'm wondering if, in a few years, our standards will be so desensitized that we'll be making fire hydrant porn, or narwhal porn, or something. Are these things acceptable? Sure, they are real facets of our world, but the media extrapolates small facets like this into the homes and buildings of society like a magnifying glass allows a person to read. At this point, the "reality" of a situation like one of those new Japanese video games that simulate rape, becomes surreal. Is expressing reality more virtuous than expressing sureality? Or does it matter?

  9. #9
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mystic Tater View Post
    Except he said you were merely speaking like one.
    Asking such a very simple question does not mark one a fundamentalist. It's an absurd remark either way you cut it. By this standard, Plato could be considered a fundamentalist, since he noted the dangers of allowing the defaming of the sacred to the long-term stability of the state.

    And in American law, as I've been noting in the Church vs State thread, this was the understanding throughout much of the early Republic. One famous example was People v. Ruggles, which upheld a conviction on blasphemy on the grounds:
    "The free, equal, and undisturbed, enjoyment of religious opinion, whatever it may be, and free and decent discussions on any religious subject, is granted and secured; but to revile, with malicious and blasphemous contempt, the religion professed by almost the whole community, is an abuse of that right....

    ...Though the constitution has discarded religious establishments, it does not forbid judicial cognisance of those offences against religion and morality which have no reference to any such establishment, or to any particular form of government, but are punishable because they strike at the root of moral obligation, and weaken the security of the social ties."

    The latter bolded parts touches upon some of Plato's arguments on the matter btw. Freedom of speech does not mean a free for all, which in the end actually trivalizes and demeans such a freedom.

    Freedom of speech and conscience are born out of the free will given to us from God, who is the father of the order of being. So to claim such freedom is more sacred than its author doesn't make much sense. Even from a legal positivist perspective, freedom of speech is given simply because the state allows it - but even then freedom of speech is not necessarily sacred in itself, but less sacred above everything else.

    Hence my question.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Misty_Mountain_Rose's Avatar
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    Peguy, I want to meet someone like you some day and have coffee. I think you're brilliant, not only here but in a lot of posts. Just sayin'.

    Embrace the possibilities.

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