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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by You'reWrongI'mRight View Post
    They might as well block the entire Internet....
    well not the entire internet, just the sites that don't have any respect for their beliefs. perhaps they'll institute some sort of system similar to that of the child protection locks used to keeps kids away from porn and the like. who knows... but either way it's their right and I suspect we can't fully understand their motivations without understanding their culture and I certainly don't pretend to.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mask Manifest View Post
    It's entirely reasonable for them to boycott offensive material, even though I'm pretty sure Facebook didn't create the user group themselves. I was just addressing the intolerance of religious extremists who expect everyone else to yield to their beliefs, regardless of the religion.
    I certainly agree with you on this point. I don't understand why people want to convert others and I don't think I ever will.

  3. #43
    Senior Member JHBowden's Avatar
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    Lateralus: You do realize that the position you describe is reactionary.
    I'm guilty as charged, Mr. Spock!

  4. #44
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    Keep in mind that the only reason many want to do this is because the extremists has successfully used the threat of violence to impose their restrictions on non believers.

    There is no other way to defy the extremists without offending the innocent.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Keep in mind that the only reason many want to do this is because the extremists has successfully used the threat of violence to impose their restrictions on non believers.

    There is no other way to defy the extremists without offending the innocent.
    I think we should just get it over with. Publish millions of images and see what happens (probably nothing). Images are going to be published eventually anyway. Dragging it out like this only adds drama.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #46
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    Free speech is important, in the same way the idea of democracy are important. And anyone who argues against it is shooting themselves in the foot.

    For if you are not for freedom of speech, then you are for censorship, and while you might strongly disagree with opinions stated by others, who's to say your deeply held opinions are not the next to be censored?

    The ideas of freedom of speech and democracy are connected to the idea of equal worth, and to peoples will to be taken seriously by others. If you want to be able to have your opinions, your voice and your way of life, you must allow others to have theirs.

    The whole Muhammed drawings thingy are disrespectful, and it might increase hostility betwen muslims and the west, but what should be done about it? Do you really mean that people who draw muhammed charicatures should be imprisoned?

    You might think your neighbour to be delusional and wrong, but you can't force him to agree with you. That is what freedom of speech is about. And no one is stopping you to disagree with anyone.

    People will express far out and crazy ideas that are provocative, that is the cost of freedom of speech, but the alternative is much worse. It's like how we need politicans and the media. Everybody hates them, but they are a necessary evil for without them we would risk a much greater evil (violence, war, genocide)

    Now, to be honest, I belive many people who "argues against" freedom of speech in reality just want more respect for their own opinions and/or religion, which are fair enough, but don't make the mistake to go tyrannical because your strongly held beliefs aren't shared by everyone else.

  7. #47
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    Keep in mind that the only reason many want to do this is because the extremists has successfully used the threat of violence to impose their restrictions on non believers.
    Where? How?

    There is no other way to defy the extremists without offending the innocent.
    I have no idea what this sentence is supposed to mean. Who are these innocents who are not being offended? Non-extremist Muslims? There is a longstanding antipathy in Islamic culture to visual representations of Allah, Mohammed, etc, which derives from the scriptural prohibition on idolatry as the only sin which can not be forgiven. It's therefore nonsense to suppose that only extremists will be offended; any observant Muslim will share the antipathy, though I would have thought that intelligent ones would know better than to get worked up about such a transparent attempt to offend.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  8. #48
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spin-1/2-nuclei View Post
    in this case aren't they just blocking FB, though? That seems reasonable to me.
    So, just to clarify, you're fine with governments banning speech that they disagree with or find offensive? That's pretty scary.

  9. #49
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    I have no idea what this sentence is supposed to mean.

    It's therefore nonsense to suppose that only extremists will be offended; any observant Muslim will share the antipathy
    1.) It means that without the freedom to offend, free speech is toothless (and non-existent).

    2.) And any patriotic American is offended by burning the American flag in protest, and any religious Christian is offended by artwork such as "piss-Christ." That is all irrelevant.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 05-20-2010 at 07:04 PM. Reason: clarification

  10. #50
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    How can freedom of speech be more sacred than anything else?
    Because information is the only really valuable thing in this world.

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