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  1. #121
    Ginkgo
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    Luke 17 (KJV)
    And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

    *gasp*

    What could it mean?

  2. #122
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    The Kingdom of God is composed of all who acknowledge God as their King. That is why Jesus and his cousin John preached "The Kingdom of God is at hand" repeatedly. The message was not "Behave and you can go to heaven"; the message was "You can serve the Lord God and be part of His Kingdom right now."

    That's why the Kingdom of God and entry into heaven are not the same thing.
    I'm aware of this definition. If you apply this definition to Peguy's Just War Doctrine, people could fight each other over pretty much anything, claiming that they're defending the Kingdom of God (which is exactly what happens in the real world). That would actually contradict the "turn the other cheek" concept.

    The Just War Doctrine is bullshit.

    I was trying to give a more precise definition that would actually be compatible with the Just War Doctrine and not contradict the Bible.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #123
    Oberon
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    Lateralus, your bravado far outstrips your understanding.

  4. #124
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Lateralus, your bravado far outstrips your understanding.
    How many times have you made a snarky response without actually addressing the topic at hand? Two, three times?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #125
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    How many times have you made a snarky response without actually addressing the topic at hand? Two, three times?
    I've tried to imply that maybe you should go learn some more about the topic. I'm trying to advise you that your understanding is short of the mark in this area.

    Doesn't much matter, though... I'm done with the thread. See you 'round.

  6. #126
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    The divine origins of Scriptures is not what I asked. I asked you on what basis do you say that Just War doctrine is not compatible with the Bible, but rather stuff people made up later.
    This is kind of addressed to Lateralus, but because some of the things in the Bible aren't really compatible with other things in the Bible, like the different accounts of how Judas died, and the two distinct creation stories, and probably countless other things that are really only the result of inconsistencies between authors or thoughts, you can't really nullify the Just War doctrine if it "isn't compatible". Aquinas was an innovative thinker who built upon what was already heeded in his day. Even though I don't personally like the Just War doctrine because it involves war and disregards peace and compassion, it may have been proper at the time. Bleh.

  7. #127
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I've tried to imply that maybe you should go learn some more about the topic. I'm trying to advise you that your understanding is short of the mark in this area.

    Doesn't much matter, though... I'm done with the thread. See you 'round.
    I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I am fairly knowledgeable on the subject. It was force fed to me for the first 17 years of my life.

    What you don't seem to understand is that in debates like this I play it like a chess game. I'm not just thinking about this post, but several posts ahead. That's also why snarky responses bother me. I want you to write the response I'm trying to manipulate you into making, and when you don't, I get annoyed. It doesn't always work out as planned, but it's usually fun getting people to back themselves into corners when it works.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'm aware of this definition. If you apply this definition to Peguy's Just War Doctrine, people could fight each other over pretty much anything, claiming that they're defending the Kingdom of God (which is exactly what happens in the real world). That would actually contradict the "turn the other cheek" concept.

    The Just War Doctrine is bullshit.

    I was trying to give a more precise definition that would actually be compatible with the Just War Doctrine and not contradict the Bible.
    Er, I reckon its a good idea to have a doctrine as none at all, not all wars are the same.

    I mean besides slavery, fascism, nazism and communism it hasnt solved anything but those wherent a big deal, right?

  9. #129
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Er, I reckon its a good idea to have a doctrine as none at all, not all wars are the same.

    I mean besides slavery, fascism, nazism and communism it hasnt solved anything but those wherent a big deal, right?
    I never said that no war is ever worth fighting, only that the Just War Doctrine contradicts the Bible.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #130
    Sniffles
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    Uh huh, and that's why St. Paul states that God ordains the state to wield the sword? That's why the first Roman convert to Christianity is a soldier, and the major issue at hand is not his profession but whether he needs to submit to Jewish customs? That's why much of early Christian writings(including St. Paul's letters) constantly use martial idioms? :rolli:

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