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  1. #31
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starsiege View Post

    9
    Reagan yes, Kennedy no

    "Board members also rejected requiring history teachers and textbooks to provide coverage on the late U.S. Sen. Edward Kennedy and new Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor, while the late President Ronald Reagan was elevated to more prominent coverage."


    11
    It wasn't slavery – it was 'the Atlantic triangular trade', according to the conservatives on the Texas education board
    Edit: moderators, please move this post along with the other derailments.

    Many of the issues mentioned in that article are more complicated than has been presented, but these two are just flat-out stupid; Ronald Reagan is pure and simply a much more important figure than the other two, and "Atlantic Triangular trade" is a long-established term which gives important details (which most high-school students are unaware of) as to the political and economic context of the slave trade as an international system.

    The Texas board revisions are problematic, but no more so than many opposing curriculum standards from the left. In any event, there is already a thread devoted to that very issue.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 05-18-2010 at 10:01 PM. Reason: self-evident

  2. #32
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    EDIT: posted just as the thread was split.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  3. #33
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Posts above split from here.
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  4. #34
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starsiege View Post
    I just want the constitutional separation of church and state enforced
    Separation between church and state isn't about restricting religion in the way you are thinking. It's really more about encouraging a variety of religions. The principle is essentially about tolerating diversity, and it is why the US is the melting pot/salad bowl that it has become today.

    So the First Amendment is there to allow a politician to talk about their Conservative Christian beliefs, for example. On the other hand if the same person says not to vote for someone simply because they are a Muslim, then that is against the spirit of the First Amendment.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  5. #35
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    On the other hand if the same person says not to vote for someone simply because they are a Muslim, then that is against the spirit of the First Amendment.
    No it does not. there is a difference between establishing laws that favor or disfavor a religious belief and taking into consideration the religious beliefs of an individual running for office. I think its fair to say that a person's religious beliefs will impact how they will lead. It's ridiculous to say people's private belief won't impact their public decisions.

    I would never vote for a scientologist. Does anyone have a problem with me for saying that?
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  6. #36
    Senior Member Daedalus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    Separation between church and state isn't about restricting religion in the way you are thinking. It's really more about encouraging a variety of religions. The principle is essentially about tolerating diversity, and it is why the US is the melting pot/salad bowl that it has become today.

    So the First Amendment is there to allow a politician to talk about their Conservative Christian beliefs, for example. On the other hand if the same person says not to vote for someone simply because they are a Muslim, then that is against the spirit of the First Amendment.
    Thats what i adhere to as well.

    I have nothing against people practicing religion as much as they want. But i do not want politicians, or people, trying to impart an aura of and/or imply that somehow the country is religious/part of some religion.

    For example..i have no problem with the ten commandments, or people who follow it..preach it and etc etc

    however, i cannot support the ten commandments being placed in state courthouses. The example of the Acog reflex sight company putting bible verse numbers on the rifle scope sights is a similar issue. Public tax money should not be used to promote religion.

    the former is personal choice, and does not encroach my rights, but the latter does.




    I might disapprove of what the religious people might say , but I will defend to the death their right to say it(as long as they do not siphon off my rights)
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    I would never vote for a scientologist. Does anyone have a problem with me for saying that?
    Well apparently John Jay, first chief justice of Supreme court, wouldn't:

    "Providence has given to our people the choice of their ruler, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."

  8. #38
    Glowy Goopy Goodness The_Liquid_Laser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    No it does not. there is a difference between establishing laws that favor or disfavor a religious belief and taking into consideration the religious beliefs of an individual running for office. I think its fair to say that a person's religious beliefs will impact how they will lead. It's ridiculous to say people's private belief won't impact their public decisions.

    I would never vote for a scientologist. Does anyone have a problem with me for saying that?
    You can vote for whomever you like and for whatever reason you like. However once politicians say that a person should be forbidden from office simply because they are Muslim, Jewish, Atheist, etc..., then they are trying to forbid a candidate on religious grounds. They are going against the spirit of the First Amendment. Of course if they also try to pass a law saying the same thing then they are going against the letter of the First Amendment.
    My wife and I made a game to teach kids about nutrition. Please try our game and vote for us to win. (Voting period: July 14 - August 14)
    http://www.revoltingvegetables.com

  9. #39
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Liquid_Laser View Post
    You can vote for whomever you like and for whatever reason you like. However once politicians say that a person should be forbidden from office simply because they are Muslim, Jewish, Atheist, etc..., then they are trying to forbid a candidate on religious grounds. They are going against the spirit of the First Amendment. Of course if they also try to pass a law saying the same thing then they are going against the letter of the First Amendment.
    You mean like in campaigning?

    why would you want to restrict campaign speech? It's political speech and the supreme court generally views it as high value speech which gets to the very core of the free speech clause.

    Obviously you can't pass a law saying Episcopalians can't become mayors.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

  10. #40
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starsiege View Post

    I might disapprove of what the religious people might say , but I will defend to the death their right to say it(as long as they do not siphon off my rights)
    Christians say this all the time too. But, I have to wonder... is preserving pluralism really that important. I would rather die for what I actually believe in than die so that others can propagate what I believe to be false.

    Allowing for the free exercise of religion is important... but it's not the first thing on my list for which I would die.
    Take the weakest thing in you
    And then beat the bastards with it
    And always hold on when you get love
    So you can let go when you give it

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