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  1. #61
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    Do you expect suburbanites to become victims more frequently? I'm not sure I'm following what you are trying to express.
    Yes, I do. When that happens, outrage concerning these incidences will be much more common, and there will be far less concern about what the victims did to incite these incidences.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  2. #62
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Absolutely correct, why doesnt it happen in the 'burbs? They less likely to resist police? Less likely to attract police attention?

    I dont get what the judgement being passed in the OP is.
    This doesn't just happen in the inner city, police violently raiding houses using bad intelligence. I made a post just a few days ago on an incident in Columbia, MO, a mostly white college town. The video Tantive linked discusses that incident.

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...3-post472.html

    The police barged through the door, shot both of the family dogs, killing one, and terrorized the children. Result: one person charged with a misdemeanor (pipe with pot residue).

    Our justice system is based on the idea that it's better to let 10 guilty people go free than to convict 1 innocent person. It seems law enforcement has the opposite attitude. This is wrong.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #63
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    This situation did not require a SWAT team doing a dynamic entry. This was a case of soldier-boy wanna-be cops wanting to use their fancy toys.
    Police service doesn't exactly attract the best and brightest in our society. This fact has many implications.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #64
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed Justice View Post
    Yes, I do. When that happens, outrage concerning these incidences will be much more common, and there will be far less concern about what the victims did to incite these incidences.
    What makes you believe that this will happen more and grow in increasing numbers in suburbia? Do you think problems with police brutality are increasing since the "heydey" of the 80s and early 90s? And if so, do you think that this will cross racial lines (for lack of a better word) to affect white, or "suburban", people in the same way as it does in urban areas?

    There are countless incidences of inner-city police brutality - Amadou Diallo and Abner Louima come to mind immediately - but why do you think that this sort of behavior is actually spreading and growing in affluent areas?

  5. #65
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    There are countless incidences of inner-city police brutality - Amadou Diallo and Abner Louima come to mind immediately - but why do you think that this sort of behavior is actually spreading and growing in affluent areas?
    Because of a gradual change in police culture. The War on Drugs has led to a militarization of civilian police forces, both in terms of tactics and equipment. In the 1960s and '70s the mantra was "serve and protect"; now the police are mission-oriented, and officer safety has become top priority. Partly this has been driven by the actual presence of well-armed drug-running gangs, but it has also been driven by the availability of federal funds for anti-drug enforcement even in areas relatively free of gang-related activity or other organized crime.

    It used to be that police officers were part of the community where they worked. Increasingly, however, police officers compose an insular social group in which their closest friends are other police officers. This promotes an us-vs.-them mentality that is ultimately dangerous. It's a ready-made enforcement arm for any potential fascist leader who might manage to take up the reins.

  6. #66
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    What makes you believe that this will happen more and grow in increasing numbers in suburbia? Do you think problems with police brutality are increasing since the "heydey" of the 80s and early 90s? And if so, do you think that this will cross racial lines (for lack of a better word) to affect white, or "suburban", people in the same way as it does in urban areas?

    There are countless incidences of inner-city police brutality - Amadou Diallo and Abner Louima come to mind immediately - but why do you think that this sort of behavior is actually spreading and growing in affluent areas?
    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Because of a gradual change in police culture. The War on Drugs has led to a militarization of civilian police forces, both in terms of tactics and equipment. In the 1960s and '70s the mantra was "serve and protect"; now the police are mission-oriented, and officer safety has become top priority. Partly this has been driven by the actual presence of well-armed drug-running gangs, but it has also been driven by the availability of federal funds for anti-drug enforcement even in areas relatively free of gang-related activity or other organized crime.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    It used to be that police officers were part of the community where they worked. Increasingly, however, police officers compose an insular social group in which their closest friends are other police officers. This promotes an us-vs.-them mentality that is ultimately dangerous. It's a ready-made enforcement arm for any potential fascist leader who might manage to take up the reins.
    I agree here too. Of course there was never a time when police officers truly belonged to communities considered to be impoverished, black, or brown; so the us vs. them mentality was always present. It's more apparent now that "them" is beginning to include more historically privileged people.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

  7. #67
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Police service doesn't exactly attract the best and brightest in our society. This fact has many implications.
    lol, someone had to say it.

    We always get the old arguments "they have a difficult job". But no-one forced them to become cops in the first place. And maybe if they didn't make such a habit of brute force people would be less inclined to treat them in the same way.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  8. #68
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Again with the "they" as if you're speaking about all of them...

  9. #69
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beat View Post
    Again with the "they" as if you're speaking about all of them...
    The police is a collective organization and its members enjoy collective privileges in return for colelctive loyalty to the institutions.

    I know for a fact that some of them are nice people, I've had schoolfriends, neighbours, cousins become cops. But the fact is that even the ones who seem ok, when it comes down to it, act as cover for the bad ones, and 99 times out of a hundred will enforce unjust measures, because they like the perks of the job (stability, job for life, status...power).

    Sorry but that's how I see it.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    I'm not sure the war on drugs lead to the militarisation of the police so much as the fact that dealing provided gangs with enough arms to be as much of a challenge to the authorities as the insurgents in Iraq, seriously, I've read or heard commentators who suggest that Bin Laden's outfit is less frightening than some of the gangs in LA.

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