User Tag List

First 2345 Last

Results 31 to 40 of 47

  1. #31
    Senior Member Shimmy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    MBTI
    SEXY
    Posts
    1,868

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Both need mass support.

    Is that what you are saying from your title?

    India has those terrorist Maos but they are supposedly defending the tribal rural populations, the terrorist Chechens in Russia want independence, each terrorist group have an agenda and ignoring it won't do anything, would only make them escalate their violence so that they do gain attention, those agendas need to be resolved. Terrorists are not monsters; they are trying to change something.
    Yes but on the other hand, often whatever terrorists want to see changed isn't what the majority wants. I don't think you should let terrorists get their way if what the terrorists want isn't actually beneficial to what you, or whoever you represent, wants.

    For example, it would be near impossible, and most certainly not beneficial to the majority of people, if Basque country would be independent from spain, or if Israel would seize to exist, yet this is what certain groups want.
    (removed)

  2. #32
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,536

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    Both need mass support.

    Is that what you are saying from your title?

    India has those terrorist Maos but they are supposedly defending the tribal rural populations, the terrorist Chechens in Russia want independence, each terrorist group have an agenda and ignoring it won't do anything, would only make them escalate their violence so that they do gain attention, those agendas need to be resolved. Terrorists are not monsters; they are trying to change something.
    I guess it is a question of values. And I chose to value liberal democracy.

    And in valuing liberal democracy, I am completely and irrevocably opposed to political violence, no matter where it comes from.

    And in particular I am opposed to those who include political violence in their ideology.

  3. #33
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    3w4?
    Posts
    1,238

    Default

    Terrorism is based off of something. Using fear/terror to attain a goal.

    Bush was a terrorist.

    The media are terrorists.

    This is by definition - they use FEAR to get whot they want.

    Bombing a building creates fear. Telling someone that they're going to bomb a building instead of handling it quietly ALSO creates fear. Both sides use this fear to their advantage; they are both terrorists, as they deal with terror to get whot they want.

    Giving them whot they want is the point... throwing that at them won't solve it. Neither will ignoring them. They will go to more extreme measures to instill fear. It's a tactic designed to gain benefit through evoking fear; if yeu ignore them, then yeu aren't scared, so they'll just change their specific tactics until yeu ARE scared. Ignoring them will not solve it. Neither will giving them whot they want. Both of these actions encourage it.

    Terrorism isn't a religion though. It's not a government. It's not a people. It's not even a mindset.

    It's a set of tools designed to get something that one wants.

    If someone wants to take southpark off the air, they use FEAR to make the producers censor it. Oh wait. They did that. By using FEAR. There yeu go, they literally were terrorists.

    They don't have to bomb a building for fear to be instilled; they just have to suggest it in many cases. To allude to. To imply. As long as people are scared, then it was using terror to gain their objective.

    The problem is, people are scared so easily these days, that it's a highly effective tool. Srsly. 3000 people died, not even all that large an amount, and it crippled the entire USA. 40,000 people die daily; not even 10% of those were in the WTC... and it crippled the country with FEAR. People refused to go out of their houses. They paniced any time they saw white powder like flour, for fears it was anthrax. They are terrified of going on planes. People are STILL scared to some degree, especially since people keep bringing up the WTC thing.

    Fact is, every time yeu mention it and rekindle that fear, yeu are helping terrorists, because yeu are bringing back fear, and that fear strengthens them.

    It's not pride, it's not justice, or remembrance. It's fear. They WANT yeu to be scared.

    And so long as yeu remain scared, yeu have fallen into their trap.

    And I mean it. This includes not just the "traditional" terrorists who use explosives, but those in government and media as well. If yeu're SCARED, yeu're more likely to watch the news... do yeu think the media's ratings went through the roof after 9/11? Durr YEAH! Why do yeu think they show such horrible things on tv like people dying in car accidents and such? Because it brings in ratings, and those ratings are generated by FEAR.

    Why do yeu think the government kept pushing people's buttons to elicit a reaction of fear? Because if people are scared, they give the government more power. The bush administration, was by definition, terrorists. They used fear and terror to their advantage to gain power.

    Every time yeu are scared because someone tried to scare yeu, yeu've lost to a terrorist. The bully in school who threatens to beat yeu up, if yeu cower, and give them whot they want, they have used terror to incite yeur compliance with their desires. The senator who tells yeu that GAYS WILL DESTROY YEUR MARRIAGES! is using fear to get yeu to embrace their values; they are a terrorist. The president changing the terror alert level to a higher value and not telling people why, is trying to elicit fear to ensure they are allowed to do anything they want to; they are a terrorist.

    Yeu can't "fight" terrorists. The people fighting them ARE terrorists.

    The only thing yeu can do is fight people who USE terrorism as a tactic. But the same people who are fighting... are terrorists... so really, yeu're no farther ahead than yeu were in the first place.

    Fact is, yeu're surrounded by terrorists. From the guy threatening to blow yeu up, to the saleswoman telling yeu that if yeu don't buy that product, yeur wife will leave yeu.

    Yeu can't escape them, and most of them yeu'll embrace rather than resist.

    Yeu can't IGNORE them, they're everywhere, and most of them yeu don't even recognize.

    Do yeu think that buying the product will make her not use that sales tactic of terrorism again? HEEEEELL NO! She'll realize it WORKS and do it again!

    Obviously, giving them whot they want doesn't confuse them. It's whot they want.

    Ignoring them doesn't work either; they will try harder to find yeur weak point to incite fear, or change tactics to something else that works on yeu, but they are going to keep trying to use a tactic of some sort to get yeu to do whot they want.

    In the end, yeu are going to be manipulated into doing whot someone else wants. Either through kindness, or fear, it doesn't matter. Yeu are a pawn. The sooner yeu realize that fact, the sooner yeu can move in a way the player didn't want yeu to and screw up their game. But until yeu come to that realization, yeu can't beat them at their own game. They control yeur every move, whether yeu know it or not. Terrorists are just a single facet of those controlling yeu. Everyone wants to move yeu, little pawn. Everyone has their grubby fingers on yeu, jerking yeu back and forth, seeing who can force yeu to move the direction they want. Terrorism is just one tool of many to force a move in the direction they choose for yeu. Yeur only escape is to understand this.

    Fighting "terrorists" will not save yeu. Realization will.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4sop
    Socionics
    IEE
    Posts
    1,505

    Default

    I am completely and irrevocably opposed to political violence, no matter where it comes from. And in particular I am opposed to those who include political violence in their ideology.
    I find it outrageous that whatever mistakes/accidents/intentions of the US Army would be justified because it is a national, legal organization but a terrorist could commit the same exact crime and it is the act of a DEVIL. I agree that terrorists is not an 'entity' but a military and political tactic. You can oppose it all you want, but it still exists and will continue to. I oppose violence too, in any form, not just the form the terrorists use. I think people get too fancy with these labels and categories and get stuck in the propaganda. Break all of it down to the most basic levels and the national army and the terrorists both instill terror/destruction to accomplish political goals, both try to protect a certain group. Both groups have a top power and the members give up their free minds to 'protect' 'to change the political situation' and they both willingly follow the top commanders without questioning. Does anyone else see this? Yes, the army does not intentionally harm civilians but the fact is, they do. Does intention make a huge difference when the results are the same? Do those families feel better that their children were blown up even though it wasn't the intention of the operation? What are you supposed to say to them in that situation? We apologize, blah blah.

    Throughout history, terrorists were met with strong military force, but it is like chopping off a tiny piece of a worm. You can't kill everyone with opposing opinions. It is like an endless circle. Chechnya views Russia as terrorists and uses military force for independence. Russia views Chechnya as terrorists and uses even stronger military force. Etc. Etc. People see terrorism as foreign and barbaric, it is just warfare.


    Yes but on the other hand, often whatever terrorists want to see changed isn't what the majority wants. I don't think you should let terrorists get their way if what the terrorists want isn't actually beneficial to what you, or whoever you represent, wants. For example, it would be near impossible, and most certainly not beneficial to the majority of people, if Basque country would be independent from spain, or if Israel would seize to exist, yet this is what certain groups want.
    Of course, no one in their right mind would say give them whatever they want. But in certain situations, there is a solution but governments get all outraged when they should be solving the problem by political diplomacy and economic reform, not military operations. In some situations. Not all. Each situation should be looked at separately, it's ineffective to group them all together as We Must Defeat All Terrorists.

    All I am saying is that people get all wrapped up and self-righteous about the Big Frightening Word and forget that there are rational causes.

    I don't condone violence but I do know that military power is necessary sometimes to protect innocent groups, but military power goes both ways, both good and evil. People only acknowledge the good and start singing about patriotism when it has done immense damage.

  5. #35
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5
    Socionics
    INTj
    Posts
    1,158

    Default

    Fact is, every time yeu mention it and rekindle that fear, yeu are helping terrorists, because yeu are bringing back fear, and that fear strengthens them.

    It's not pride, it's not justice, or remembrance. It's fear. They WANT yeu to be scared.

    And so long as yeu remain scared, yeu have fallen into their trap.

    And I mean it. This includes not just the "traditional" terrorists who use explosives, but those in government and media as well. If yeu're SCARED, yeu're more likely to watch the news... do yeu think the media's ratings went through the roof after 9/11? Durr YEAH! Why do yeu think they show such horrible things on tv like people dying in car accidents and such? Because it brings in ratings, and those ratings are generated by FEAR.

    Why do yeu think the government kept pushing people's buttons to elicit a reaction of fear? Because if people are scared, they give the government more power. The bush administration, was by definition, terrorists. They used fear and terror to their advantage to gain power.

    Every time yeu are scared because someone tried to scare yeu, yeu've lost to a terrorist. The bully in school who threatens to beat yeu up, if yeu cower, and give them whot they want, they have used terror to incite yeur compliance with their desires. The senator who tells yeu that GAYS WILL DESTROY YEUR MARRIAGES! is using fear to get yeu to embrace their values; they are a terrorist. The president changing the terror alert level to a higher value and not telling people why, is trying to elicit fear to ensure they are allowed to do anything they want to; they are a terrorist.

    Yeu can't "fight" terrorists. The people fighting them ARE terrorists.

    The only thing yeu can do is fight people who USE terrorism as a tactic. But the same people who are fighting... are terrorists... so really, yeu're no farther ahead than yeu were in the first place.

    Fact is, yeu're surrounded by terrorists. From the guy threatening to blow yeu up, to the saleswoman telling yeu that if yeu don't buy that product, yeur wife will leave yeu.

    Yeu can't escape them, and most of them yeu'll embrace rather than resist.

    Yeu can't IGNORE them, they're everywhere, and most of them yeu don't even recognize.

    Do yeu think that buying the product will make her not use that sales tactic of terrorism again? HEEEEELL NO! She'll realize it WORKS and do it again!

    Obviously, giving them whot they want doesn't confuse them. It's whot they want.

    Ignoring them doesn't work either; they will try harder to find yeur weak point to incite fear, or change tactics to something else that works on yeu, but they are going to keep trying to use a tactic of some sort to get yeu to do whot they want.

    In the end, yeu are going to be manipulated into doing whot someone else wants. Either through kindness, or fear, it doesn't matter. Yeu are a pawn. The sooner yeu realize that fact, the sooner yeu can move in a way the player didn't want yeu to and screw up their game. But until yeu come to that realization, yeu can't beat them at their own game. They control yeur every move, whether yeu know it or not. Terrorists are just a single facet of those controlling yeu. Everyone wants to move yeu, little pawn. Everyone has their grubby fingers on yeu, jerking yeu back and forth, seeing who can force yeu to move the direction they want. Terrorism is just one tool of many to force a move in the direction they choose for yeu. Yeur only escape is to understand this.

    Fighting "terrorists" will not save yeu. Realization will.
    Lulz.
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  6. #36
    Senior Member Chunes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    9w1
    Posts
    367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    I am goin to assume that this comment was anti-government since that's what it looks like. If I interpreted it incorrectly, forgive me.

    Are you implying that the government is the cause of depraved behavior?
    No, I mean—

    If you're going to go so far as to engage in terrorism to get your phat house, then the government is getting off cheap by giving you what you want.
    "If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see."
    Thoreau

  7. #37
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,536

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Bush was a terrorist.

    The media are terrorists.

    This is by definition...
    This is a repetition of jihadi propaganda.

  8. #38
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    This was the debate on the radio the other day, a former government official had to play devils advocate and argue against his own policies, I havent made up my mind for sure but I do think that terrorists and politicians alike try to control the media and coverage of crimes and atrocities.
    The nescient cannot afford to ignore.

  9. #39
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,619

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is a repetition of jihadi propaganda.
    Yes.
    What is the definition of logic?

  10. #40
    Senior Member matmos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    MBTI
    NICE
    Posts
    1,721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    The nescient cannot afford to ignore.
    Or they could take a leaf out of Mr Bean's big pageturner and resort to cheating.

    [YOUTUBE="WbKtASR5Q20"]Mr Bean Copies The Wrong Answer[/YOUTUBE]

Similar Threads

  1. [INFP] What is the best way to tell an INFP you love them?
    By demaugustus in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 05-05-2016, 03:20 PM
  2. Replies: 41
    Last Post: 02-13-2014, 12:46 AM
  3. What is the best way to decorate a completely white room?
    By GZA in forum Home, Garden and Nature
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 12-06-2013, 01:10 PM
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-06-2011, 11:25 PM
  5. [ISFP] Is the only way to make an ISFP talk 'is' to strangle them?
    By Riva in forum The SP Arthouse (ESFP, ISFP, ESTP, ISTP)
    Replies: 71
    Last Post: 02-25-2010, 11:40 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO