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  1. #151
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    Underlying principles, which indeed only modernisers are going to be interested in changing, are indeed long-standing, but this is a separate issue.

    I wouldn't like to assume that this is the case in Muslim majority countries, or even other countries with a lot of Muslim immigrants.

    I'm not really interested in whether current practice conforms to your definition of "modernising" (which is up to Muslims to decide whether they want to do, not us non-Muslims to insist on them needing to do to conform to our own expectations)
    1.) You mean underlying principles such as Shariah law and the non-separation between Mosque and state (within the parameters covered by Shariah), not to mention opposition to free speech as in the case of the OP article?

    2.) a.) I didn't want to assume that, either....

    b.) The strict taboos against blasphemy and apostasy make attempts at
    necessary theological reform very difficult and extremely dangerous
    for would-be reformers.

    3.) I'm afraid I'm going to have to insist that traditionalist Muslims adopt "liberal" interpretations of Islam; the auspices must come through the Muslim community, but external pressures in that direction (particularly within Western countries themselves) are needed as an impetus, just as my own "in-group" (white Southerners) needed such pressures to facilitate a change in racial attitudes. I also will not allow charges of "Islamophobia" or "Orientalism" to intimidate me from insisting that Muslims follow the same minimum standards of behavior that I apply to Christians and atheists. If you are simply unconvinced that contemporary Muslim beliefs are a major problem, that's fine, but I take serious issue with that last statement I quoted.

  2. #152
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    The point is not what one thinks the correct interpretation of the texts should be, but that religious texts are manipulated to serve material interests in different conjunctures, and that precisely because of their mateaphysical nature they are open to this kind of manipulation.

    This is why even if some of the more "theological" claims about Islam are true, it is not that relevant in practice. The Jewish, Christian and Buddhist religious institutions are responsible for just as much crime against humanity as Islamic ones are.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

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