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  1. #121
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Yes...just a proportionally low amount, as illustrated by my South Park example.
    As I've explained, that's like saying 'every threat and act of violence towards abortion doctors/patients has been made by Christians, therefore there are more Christian extremists in this country than Muslim ones!'

    You can't take the reaction to one particular religious taboo (ridicule of the religion in this case, or abortion in the above) and use that as the sole measure of violent extremism from two groups when you know that it evokes violence from one group and not the other, unless of course you're LOOKING for a measure that will give you one particular result, which you are.

    Try comparing the number of violent or threatening incidents in the USA involving Christianity-driven perps with the number involving Islam-driven perps IN TOTAL, not just the ones that favour your argument.

  2. #122
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    As I've explained, that's like saying 'every threat and act of violence towards abortion doctors/patients has been made by Christians, therefore there are more Christian extremists in this country than Muslim ones!'

    You can't take the reaction to one particular religious taboo (ridicule of the religion in this case) and use that as the sole measure of violent extremism from two groups when you know that it evokes violence from one group and not the other, unless of course you're LOOKING for a measure that will give you one particular result, which you are.

    Try comparing the number of violent or threatening incidents in the USA involving Christianity-driven perps with the number involving Islam-driven perps IN TOTAL, not just the ones that favour your argument.
    1.) You're projecting my intentions: I consider freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and equality under the law to be high among the essential rights which make all other rights possible in the long-term. In short, I'm focusing on this because I find the issue to be extremely important, not because I'm seeking to validate some bias.

    2.) What issues which are more likely to evoke threats or acts of violence by Christians (on an explicitly religious basis) are unlikely to evoke (proportionately)the same or greater amount of acts/threats of violence by Muslims?

  3. #123
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It clearly challenges your argument. The head of the Irish church condemned the IRA's violent activities, end of story.
    You clearly still don't have a clue what my argument actually was.

    I don't know anything about the head of the Irish Church, just as most Westerners don't know anything about the Muslim leaders who've condemned violence. Neither means that no condemnation happened, just illustrates that the media's reporting, and also people's memories, are selective. End of story.

  4. #124
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spin-1/2-nuclei View Post
    yes in fact it does. you seem to think there is a low chance of someone in this country being terrorized by a christian fundamentalist
    On the issue of threats/acts of violence as a result of speech (i.e. the topic of this thread), there is manifestly more fear of Islamic militants than of radical Christians. What you are describing is a small proportion of a huge population, not a much larger (but still small, as far as violent militants are concerned) proportion of a tiny population.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    On the issue of threats/acts of violence as a result of speech (i.e. the topic of this thread), there is manifestly more fear of Islamic militants than of radical Christians. What you are describing is a small proportion of a huge population, not a much larger (but still small, as far as violent militants are concerned) proportion of a tiny population.
    - Professors in Colorado Receive Death Threats for Teaching Evolution | Wired Science | Wired.com

    edit I forgot this one too: - Christian Lunatics Issue Death Threats Over a Cracker | PEEK | AlterNet

    I'm sorry what were you saying?

  6. #126
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHBowden View Post
    To be a freedom fighter, you have to fight for freedom. Theocracy doesn't fit the bill.

    You progressives are complete idiots for showing solidarity with theocrats, since you're always the first to die when the religious crazies take over. For example, look at the Iranian revolution.
    I'm amazed at the inability of someone with dominant Extraverted Thinking to follow a straight train of reasoning.

    Again, where did I say that theocrats are "freedom fighters" or that we should show solidarity with them?

    Most revolutionary tendencies supported the Iranian Revolution while opposing the religious conservatives. In Iran the only significant far-left force to collaborate with the Islamists was the Tudeh Party, following the line of the Soviet Union (though perhaps because of their importance their betrayal was decisive).

    Supporting popular resistance to dictatorship and occupation =/= supporting the reactionary leaderships who may temporarily find themselves at the head of these movements.
    Last edited by tcda; 05-18-2010 at 12:17 PM.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  7. #127
    Freshman Member simulatedworld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    I'm amazed at the inability of someone with dominant Extraverted Thinking to follow a straight train of reasoning.

    Again, where did I say that theocrats are "freedom fighters" or that we should show solidarity with them?
    Te sucks at pure logic when it can't be demonstrated through a quantifiable, measurable external process.
    If you could be anything you want, I bet you'd be disappointed--am I right?

  8. #128
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feops View Post
    Tcda, I'd ask that you be more specific. You're speaking to political groups which isn't really the same thing. If I'm unhappy with my political group I'm more than willing to be vocal about it and/or change my vote, to which in larger numbers results in change. You could argue that no party is entirely clean, which is true, but that's really not the point.
    But "Muslim" is not a political group.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  9. #129
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spin-1/2-nuclei View Post
    :rolli:

    I was saying that the definitions of "proportional" and "anecdotal" are fairly important. But go on thinking that you're likely to be attacked for wearing a t-shirt of bumper-stickers inside a socially-conservative church if it makes you feel vindicated.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 05-17-2010 at 06:11 PM. Reason: word choice

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    :rolli:

    I was saying that the definitions of "proportional" and "anecdotal" are fairly important. But go on thinking that you're likely to be attacked for wearing a t-shirt of bumper-stickers inside a socially-conservative church if it makes you feel vindicated.
    Nice attempt to side step my point. The truth - even if you don't want to face it - is that fundamentalist christians do issue death threats and cause terror in this country for speech if it happens to be about evolution (among other things)... just because it doesn't make the news doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

    The even larger point being that there are christian religious crazies in this country and they are no better or less dangerous than the muslim religious crazies. The average christian should not be held accountable for the actions of their crazies nor should the average muslim be held accountable for the actions of their crazies.

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