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  1. #11
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Then kill yourself.
    It actually goes against the grain less to just drift along, eating, sleeping, excreting, etc...
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  2. #12
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It actually goes against the grain less to just drift along, eating, sleeping, excreting, etc...
    If it goes against the grain, that's all the more reason to do it, isn't it?

    MP, the world is always ending. It's been like that since the beginning of time.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  3. #13
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    If it goes against the grain, that's all the more reason to do it, isn't it?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    MP, the world is always ending. It's been like that since the beginning of time.
    I'm not talking about the world ending, exactly, but I assume I know what you're saying.

    I think it's ending too soon for my tastes. It's like losing at level 8 in Joust.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #14
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
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    YouTube - Dr. Strangelove Final Scene

    A growing number of people realize that our political, economic, and social systems are simply unsustainable, for a large plethora of reasons. We're all waiting for the second shoe to drop.

    This sense cuts across partisan lines.

    ---

    I intend to survive and thrive, regardless of what happens.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I find a lot of Republicans and Democrats in this country treating American politics like football. I see something similar happening in Britain, it would seem. It starts to seem like everyone has forgotten that political matters are fundamentally important things.
    Yeah, I get that feeling too, lots of people who voted for the conservatives were jubilant because they'd voted for the winner and that was the most important thing to them, I've heard people on the radio since being interviewed who are all saying that they wished they'd voted conservative and where planning to but they "bottled it", ie chickened out, because they didnt want to vote for the loser.

    That bothers me because, along with people saying their primary concerns are immigration (this is generalised and vague, a sort of "bloudy foreigners" not a sophisticated concern about assimilation which I've less of a problem with. I can treat as credible even concerns that asylum seekers entering the UK because their fundamentalist beliefs are not tolerated by authoritarian but nominally or emerging secularist regimes but this is not it) and ranting about benefit scroungers makes me think that people are too easily out witted by clever politicians.

    In the UK its pretty stupid, which is infuriating, the majority of the public arent interested and will support political parties like football team, follow the lead of the conservative press and generally imagine that their vote will worry "Lazy Chav" who doesnt work and hasnt any social skills and is something of a community nuisance. Some chance. It wont impact on them at all and benefits probably wont get any harder to collect than they already are.

    In the US I think its a little different, there is much more political interest but its become very polarised and a lot of people are in a rush to put on the straight jacket of ideology. The militant libertarians of today remind me of the militant marxists of yesterday and the willingness to support personal violence or a police state is frightening.

    Politics use to be one of my favorite subjects. It's keeping me from enjoying my life now. I don't know how to deal with that, though.
    I can definitely empathise with this, in some way its the angst that anyone who's truly engaged in a passtime experiences when they encounter "tourists" or "dabblers" but its more pressing because anyone who's conscientiously concerned about politics knowns its not the same as digital photography or whatever.

    I dont have a solution to this sense of anxiety even, I just get bad tempered, especially when I've encountered the same topic or script for the Nth time but I try to remind myself that this other person could be encountering this idea for the first time or have a myriad of reasons not to think the way I do. Its not always ignorance, belligerence or being an ass. That's a bit of a consolation. Not much mind you.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    YouTube - Dr. Strangelove Final Scene

    A growing number of people realize that our political, economic, and social systems are simply unsustainable, for a large plethora of reasons. We're all waiting for the second shoe to drop.

    This sense cuts across partisan lines.

    ---

    I intend to survive and thrive, regardless of what happens.
    Yeah, the apocalypse culture. That interests me you know because much of the present "end times" mania of the US is markedly similar to that of the UK just before the first world war.

    I hope that there's no world war this time but people need to believe things are pretty bad if they are prepared to opt for "a war to end wars". With the modern tech that's around now old prejudices and crisis like that just cant be permitted.

    The thing about unsustainability, which sure doesnt cut across partisan boundaries, is just what is unsustainable, is it obscene wealth or benefits for the unemployed for instance?

  7. #17
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    There is no point in preparing. If it happens, eveything I know is gone. It's like dying, except there's trauma, too.

    Actually creating an effective society that does not depend on fossil fuels would require the sort of organization and industry I doubt such a movement could muster, especially considering the speed with which they'd have to pull it off.

    Time is running out, and we unfortunately depend on fossil fuels to establish the use of advanced alternative energy sources. That means that if we let fossil fuels peak on us before we've put those other energy sources in place, our last chance is gone.
    You know that's a good point, the preparedness posse wont mourn the passing of the society they believe is about to collapse, not simply because there's a "told you so, now I'm in a stronger position than you" kudos but because they've effectively rejected it and opted out of it already.

    I've highlighted that bit because I totally concur, the sorts of people who are interested enough to be agitators arent what would have once been described as organisers and even those types of people and their organising capacities where to a single end generally, pressurising someone else for a solution.

    In the utopia described sufficient impetus is provided by libertarian chargrin at the taxman and schools to provide for alternative fuels, welfare systems, mutual aid among mutually antagonistic foes, there's no evidence of that at all now, let alone in the event of a crisis when they'd be less willing to co-operate.

    The problem as I see it will be when the tipping point in resources is reached finally, there's going to be a serious slow down and reduction in expectations on the part of the massive population priced out of the market for electricity (yeah, electricity, basics like that will become obscenely expensive in any market adjustment), people arent going to like that and the states of the world could find that sufficient to mobilise people behind a final win-lose-draw contest, ie war. The states wont wait until they have nothing left, they'll probably get into a decisive war while they figure they are still flush.

    I think a lot of this was what was motivating the changes in the US from the first election of Bush, the establishment was trying hard to lay the foundation for an emergency powers state.

  8. #18
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Maybe you will find this article an interesting read, Magic.
    Am I the only one who thinks this might actually be cool?
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

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  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireyPheonix View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks this might actually be cool?
    It would be quite awesome. I wouldn't miss anything as obsolete, as current political structures.

  10. #20
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    MP, I found this and I could only think of you:

    "This country has one hand around its throat and the other down its pants."

    With all of America's many groups and movements about embracing our doomed future, the country itself seems to be getting off on the thought of national death.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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