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  1. #41
    Senior Member Bamboo's Avatar
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    I found it useful.

    But I still don't know wtf is going on. And what's this deal with Greece? Should I worry about my olive oil?

    Ok ok I'm being sarcastic but it's true: I'm absolutely guilty of being an uniformed member of the public. I'll figure it out eventually...I'm still scrambling to figure out this whole "Federal Reserve" deal so I can be moderately informed when it comes to the national debt.
    Don't know how much it'll bend til it breaks.

  2. #42
    Junior Member spacab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    This is proof that the capitalist society doesn't work, it's downright evil, bad for people, bad for cooperation and last but not least: it's unstable.
    That's why there are crises all over the place all the time.
    Because of greed, mistakes by people playing with way too much money that has got nothing to do in reality with producing anything.
    Buying and selling stock is in itself worth nothing to anyone in terms of production and actual gain.
    It's just part of the game we play, growing as a parasite on the back of the workers who actually contribute to society with products or services.
    The system under which we operate is fraudulent and violent. However, calling this system "Capitalism" could not be more off base. The only reason these clowns can bend so many rules and steal so much wealth is because of the government.

  3. #43
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    Capitalistic society works, just not with Keynesian economics, and governments having their long fingers in everything :p

    This is interesting
    MarketWatch - Stock Market Quotes, Business News, Financial News

    Dow shot up 400 points now when the markets opened after the decision to pool, what was it nearly 1 trillion dollars for greece? Insanity....
    Seems all stocks are shooting up, gold went down again.....seems like a good time to buy it. Now lets see where the next plunge happens, or when.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacab View Post
    The only reason these clowns can bend so many rules and steal so much wealth is because of the government.
    I hate it when people talk as if government were to have no power, neither would business. That's not true and there are countless examples that attest to that fact. Government was given the power to regulate business because of how unethically it behaved. The wealthy get theirs regardless of the power of government.

    Do you have any ideas on how we can improve the situation without resorting to a policy (laissez-faire) that has already failed?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #45

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I hate it when people talk as if government were to have no power, neither would business. That's not true and there are countless examples that attest to that fact. Government was given the power to regulate business because of how unethically it behaved. The wealthy get theirs regardless of the power of government.

    Do you have any ideas on how we can improve the situation without resorting to a policy (laissez-faire) that has already failed?
    Why was there a financial services crisis in an under regulated financial services sector in the US? Surely Laissez-Faire should have made that impossible?

    You're totally right about this one Lateralus.

  7. #47
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    This is proof that the capitalist society doesn't work, it's downright evil, bad for people, bad for cooperation and last but not least: it's unstable.
    That's why there are crises all over the place all the time.
    Because of greed, mistakes by people playing with way too much money that has got nothing to do in reality with producing anything.
    Buying and selling stock is in itself worth nothing to anyone in terms of production and actual gain.
    It's just part of the game we play, growing as a parasite on the back of the workers who actually contribute to society with products or services.
    This problem was not caused because capitalism was being practiced; the problem was caused because we've got a bunch of damn thieves running the show.

    In other words, the problem wasn't capitalism, but lack of ethics.

    (Yes, I know... I bit on the troll's bait. )

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    This problem was not caused because capitalism was being practiced; the problem was caused because we've got a bunch of damn thieves running the show.

    In other words, the problem wasn't capitalism, but lack of ethics.

    (Yes, I know... I bit on the troll's bait. )
    Jesus isnt a troll.

    I've heard this argument before, its like suggesting that cars shouldnt be blamed or drunk drivers, fine but its a false analogy, capitalism is more like a bus without a steering wheel or column, travelling at speed and full of passengers who didnt buy a ticket.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    This problem was not caused because capitalism was being practiced; the problem was caused because we've got a bunch of damn thieves running the show.

    In other words, the problem wasn't capitalism, but lack of ethics.

    (Yes, I know... I bit on the troll's bait. )
    But ethical behavior is required in order for capitalism to be beneficial for society. How can we say that deregulation is the proper path to take when we cannot be sure that those with power/money won't take advantage of the inevitable loopholes at the expense of the populace?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #50
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    But ethical behavior is required in order for capitalism to be beneficial for society. How can we say that deregulation is the proper path to take when we cannot be sure that those with power/money won't take advantage of the inevitable loopholes at the expense of the populace?
    Who proposed deregulation? Not me. I think we should have smart cops and plenty of 'em at the corporate level. I'd also like to see the re-enactment of the Glass-Steagall Act. I think the dismantling of major regulatory structures in the 80's and 90's is one of the many things that led us to the current shithole we're in.

    ...but that doesn't mean we should ditch Capitalism as an economic model. Communism does no better at protecting the little guy when it's led by the amoral.

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