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  1. #71
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    eh... the view that the government stepped in where private industry didn't have the resources to in order to care for the unemployed and hungry (and the old people who picked through garbage and such!)- the rampant unemployment of the Great Depression reflects a failure in part by the private sector (and the 20s government didn't do much to help either), and by the times that things got bad private industries were usually too badly off to help anyone out or provide more jobs, so the government was necissary in order to take care of a good number of people!

    (I actually am an econ minor among other things, and took a couple of classes on 20th century American history- so please, don't anyone call me stupid! )
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  2. #72
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturne View Post
    Well, because FDR reversed the depression trend with such time-honoured policies as burning livestock, and paying people to dig holes... and then fill them again... without checking to see whether digging and filling holes was in high demand... because, y'know, that's always a good way to make people prosperous... erm.

    It improved the unemployment statistics at least, and that is categorically good, right?
    do you ever look at the human impact of things instead of the numbers impact?!?
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  3. #73
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    (I actually am an econ minor among other things, and took a couple of classes on 20th century American history- so please, don't anyone call me stupid! )
    I certainly wouldn't call you stupid, whatevs, but I don't know if you've thought through all the alternatives. You've certainly absorbed academia's orthodoxy on the New Deal.

    Have you ever considered how the Austrian School of economics might have addressed the problems of the Great Depression?

    (Oh, and by the way... I'd really like it if you'd comment on my post regarding application and misapplication of the Commerce Clause in framing federal drug legislation. It's in the constitution thread.)

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    do you ever look at the human impact of things instead of the numbers impact?!?
    I only ever look at the human impact when considering policy preferences, that is all that matters to me and everything I write should be understood to reflect that, including my last post. If you understood the subtext, then you should have gotten that.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  5. #75
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    actually, a lot of what I absorbed was from family experience- I had a few relatives who were WPA workers after thier landlords sold off thier farms (the Great Depression was not kind to the agricultural sector!)

    And to study that would have been extra reading for me Oberon! and I generally avoid that! I've always tended to look at American Economic history for examples since I've always felt that the country is unique enough that examples from other countries probably shouldn't apply! That's just me though, and I'm very aware that nobody is going to change thier mind on this issue!
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Have you ever considered how the Austrian School of economics might have addressed the problems of the Great Depression?
    The Austrian school of economics pretty much nailed it, on more than the great depression. Other "economists" are like naive children by comparison, and their words hardly worth the paper their written on. Unfortunately, to understand it is required that you wrap your head around a whole new way of thinking, a contextual shift that can be very difficult to make (ironically, similar to that necessary to understand Marxist economics), and which is actively resisted in academia... or so it seems.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  7. #77
    Oberon
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    Some believe that von Hayek was essentially blackballed from the University of Chicago because of his association with the Austrian school. Wouldn't surprise me at all.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    That's just me though, and I'm very aware that nobody is going to change thier mind on this issue!
    I change my mind on these issues monthly. The month I do not is a bad month.
    A criticism that can be brought against everything ought not to be brought against anything.

  9. #79
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nocturne View Post
    Kiddo,

    It would take me all day to disentangle the web of wrongness you just wrote, and unfortunately I do not have all day, nor the inclination. Suffice to say, you're wrong... oh so very wrong, not just on the specifics, but in the framing of the problem and available responses. In fact, this thread rivals that one about faith and the brain, in that it is so overflowing at the brim with really bad arguments that my head might explode. That said, don't give up, we were all stupid once, most of all me.
    I don't typically give negative reputation, but I don't typically see ad hominems as blatant as that one on MBTI Central. If I'm wrong then you have all the opportunity in the world to educate me, but personal attacks such as calling me "stupid" and making completely unsupported claims only prove how weak your argument really is.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Most of the Libertarian distinctives (not "assumptions") are based on old, tried-and-true ideas about what works better, but they're assumed to be unproven ideas by those who are ignorant of history.
    Please, do provide examples. I believe the Vikings and Wild West are popular ones. Help educate my wee little brain since I've clearly not taken many History courses over my college career. Oh wait! I have! Silly me, I must have been asleep through them, but since you are so much the wiser, I beg of you to share your superior understanding of history with me. Just please use as many small words as possible because I wouldn't want to get all confused.

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