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  1. #71
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    Rubbish, Gordon Brown is the most incompetent British prime minster since Anthony Eden and that takes some doing. His premiership has be a complete and utter failure whether he has a ''international profile'' or not. What exactly do you expect Labour supporters to think of a man who led the party to one of its most devastating results ever?
    I'm afraid you'd need to provide something to substantiate this since it just reads like bile, the UK has helped provide stability enough to the US first while Bush and the military-industrial complex where in control and the country almost became radically rudderless and ready to strike anywhere, and afterwards helped out immensely with the financial recovery, next to China the UK is probably the most important nation in the recovery. Would anyone in the US be able to identify either Clegg or Cameron from a picture?

    What is the point of having a socialist party if it is run as if it were constitutionally a neo-conservative party? The only embarrassment Britain should have is Ed Balls did not join Jacqui Smith, Charles Clarke, and Tony McNulty in humiliating defeat.
    Hmm, its hardly neo-conservative, perhaps Blair was opportunistic and behaved like a new moneyed social climber but that went over very, very well with the people who have now elected Cameron. Was the labour party meant to be a socialist party? If you've read anything about socialism in the UK you'll know the idea was to permeate all parties with the ideas, the Labour party wasnt considered its natural home.

    To be honest those debates are a little defunct, how would being more socialist have stopped people switching their votes to conservatives?

  2. #72
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    To be honest those debates are a little defunct, how would being more socialist have stopped people switching their votes to conservatives?
    It owuld have provided answers on public services, jobs and housing which currently neither of the 3 capitalist parties can give (their only answer is "cut" though they differ with regards to the extent).
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #73
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^It's a sad state of affairs when you are forced to vote for the party that is the lesser of two evils rather than one you actually respect.
    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    It's embarassing, they actually won several whole seats in Wales this time round. Probably all the English failed social climbers who've been swarming here lately to take advantage of low house prices though
    Same with the one seat they clung to here.
    The SNP/Plaid Cymru will never get into bed with the Tories.
    In some ways this is a good result for us. Scotland might actually wake up to the fact of her effective disenfranchisement.
    The reasons why we should have/not have them are essentially identical. They would allow the government of the day to comprehensively monitor, identify, and potentially control us to a much greater degree than is currently possible. We don't have the formal constitutional guarantees to stop them abusing that power that most democratic nations do and are better off not giving it to them in the first place; it will be extremely difficult to take back once conceeded.
    Not to mention the cost. I consulted on a shambles of a pilot project for ID cards. Like all govt projects, appallingly managed, massively over-budget, frighteningly unsecure and a total mess.
    It annoys me that people who can't figure out whether or not ID cards are a good thing without party political spin are entrusted with a vote.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #74
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    It's a sad state of affairs when you are forced to vote for the party that is the lesser of two evils.
    Ever since I was mugged by reality, I have voted for the party that is the lesser evil.

    And lots of choices in life are the lesser evil. War for instance is evil but sometimes we must choose the lesser evil.

    When I was a naive idealist, I thought I could live my ideals, much as an amateur poet thinks they can live their poems, particularly their love poems, while the mature poet knows poetry does nothing.

    But the fact is that idealists are often taken advantage of. And once bitten, twice shy.

  5. #75
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Ever since I was mugged by reality, I have voted for the party that is the lesser evil.

    And lots of choices in life are the lesser evil. War for instance is evil but sometimes we must choose the lesser evil.

    When I was a naive idealist, I thought I could live my ideals, much as an amateur poet thinks they can live their poems, particularly their love poems, while the mature poet knows poetry does nothing.

    But the fact is that idealists are often taken advantage of. And once bitten, twice shy.
    Judging by your posts on this forum, I would say you are still an idealist.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  6. #76
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    When I was a naive idealist, I thought I could live my ideals, much as an amateur poet thinks they can live their poems, particularly their love poems, while the mature poet knows poetry does nothing.

    But the fact is that idealists are often taken advantage of. And once bitten, twice shy.

    Ah, penny, brown penny, brown penny,
    I am looped in the loops of her hair.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  7. #77
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    Actualy the Tories wouldn't be the MOST unpopular, but they are not far off it in real terms - so your point above may be a bit bugus. when you look at the proportion of the overall vote the Tories never do well. It's not a policial perspective just fact.
    Right, but you still have a first-past-the-post system for now. So I don't see how one could call the party with the most seats so seriously unpopular.


    Big clashes between Tories and Liberals is political perspectives around electroral reform policy and Europe.

    There are fewere clashes between Libs and Lab - who would be up for electoral reform, and have more similaries in policy and botha re OK wth Europe... hence they are closer together politically.
    These two areas make sense, but they aren't everything. There seems to be an attitude that it would be some kind of huge betrayal for the Lib Dems to cozy up to the Tories. They got their votes. It's not as if people voted Lib Dem and added "Well, if not them, Labour."
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #78
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Right, but you still have a first-past-the-post system for now. So I don't see how one could call the party with the most seats so seriously unpopular.




    These two areas make sense, but they aren't everything. There seems to be an attitude that it would be some kind of huge betrayal for the Lib Dems to cozy up to the Tories. They got their votes. It's not as if people voted Lib Dem and added "Well, if not them, Labour."
    They can do it, it would just be political suicide. Just as they have the "right" to form any coallition they want, their voters will have the "right" to abandon them.

    Not that I was ever one to begin with.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  9. #79
    Senior Member tinkerbell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Right, but you still have a first-past-the-post system for now. So I don't see how one could call the party with the most seats so seriously unpopular.




    These two areas make sense, but they aren't everything. There seems to be an attitude that it would be some kind of huge betrayal for the Lib Dems to cozy up to the Tories. They got their votes. It's not as if people voted Lib Dem and added "Well, if not them, Labour."
    When you look at the top 3 parties overall popularity, Labour would be huge (Scotland, Walse and N Ireland) vote on mass for them, they also come second nearly everywhere else. It's unlikely to tories get many votes in areas where their is strong Lab following.

    Liberals win a few seats and often come second after Labour in Labour held areas, hence Tories come last out the three in absolute voting terms... and always have - hence they are reluctant to do PR.

    I agree Lib Dem with Tories is a betrayal of their core politics, but they may jump the gun and see a good deal if they manage it broker it.

  10. #80
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    They can do it, it would just be political suicide. Just as they have the "right" to form any coallition they want, their voters will have the "right" to abandon them.

    Not that I was ever one to begin with.
    What if it works, though?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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