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  1. #131
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    You don't pay your community charge then?
    What's that?

    NI is funded differently to the UK since councils dont do much more than bin collection, the health and social services are a single entity (hence how Cameron could let on the english were paying through he nose for greater health services in NI) and housing, although there is little or no housing stock left, they no longer build and just decide which housing association to give money to, is an independent authority too.

    We pay rates, national insurance, VAT at the point of sale, PAYE (pay as you earn) and income taxes.

  2. #132
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    1.) Under PR, the popular vote is only reflected in the initial results, not the governing coalition the comes into place afterwords; majority-vote single-member districts allows the popular vote to determine the governing coalition itself.
    Yes and with non-proportional systems the backroom deals are done beforehand, and then the electorate are presented with a "take it or leave it" choice whereby if they don't "take" it, they will end up letting their biggest opponents in.

    It really is swings and roundabouts but at least under PR, millions of people who currently have no voice in parliament, would have one.


    2.) That's fair enough, I care much more about accountability and local control.
    I've lived under both FPTP and proportional systems (for legislative elections), and both are equally unaccountable. This relates to the power of the media and business lobbies, not the voting system.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  3. #133
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerbell View Post
    LOL
    Luckily I didn't do it in the end.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  4. #134
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    If I were voting in the UK, I'd want to vote for either a socially liberal Tory or fiscally conservative Lib Dem, depending on the individual.
    This is why I'm actually quite happy with this result. Maybe they'll pull each other in the directions I'd prefer. Under Cameron the Conservatives are more socially left-wing already and I suspect he'll take advantage of the excuse to go further so now despite protests from within his party, and the Lib Dems this campaign were slightly (just slightly) more open about the breadth and depth of cuts necessary to cut the deficit as much as promised than the other two parties, and have always seemed less keen to throw money at everything indiscriminately than Labour have been in the last five years, which was largely why I voted for them.

  5. #135
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by compulsiverambler View Post
    This is why I'm actually quite happy with this result. Maybe they'll pull each other in the directions I'd prefer. Under Cameron the Conservatives are more socially left-wing already and I suspect he'll take advantage of the excuse to go further so now despite protests from within his party, and the Lib Dems this campaign were slightly (just slightly) more open about the breadth and depth of cuts necessary to cut the deficit as much as promised than the other two parties, and have always seemed less keen to throw money at everything indiscriminately than Labour have been in the last five years, which was largely why I voted for them.
    Its funny I'm exactly the opposite, I'd have supported conservative democrats, if they really where democrats and really where conervative.

    The other approach, socially and fiscally liberal is pretty much everythings for sale, everything has its price, consumerism uber alas.

  6. #136
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKFTtYx2OHc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKFTtYx2OHc[/YOUTUBE]

    .
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  7. #137
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^That. Was awesome.

    Why did Gordon wait till he was leaving to actually start behaving like a human being?

    Cameron's first speech as PM was utterly underwhelming unoriginal BS.
    "Ask not what are my entitlements, but what are my responsibilities."
    If you're going to invoke JFK, at least have the decency to recognize the irony, FFS!
    "There will of course be problems, there will of course be glitches."
    A capacity for understatement, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #138
    Reason vs Being ragashree's Avatar
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    ^ Cameron seems to me like an unnatural hybrid being, a sort of horrible mutated concoction created in a test tube from the febrile genetic leftovers of Bliar and Anthony Eden in an effort at creating the ideal modern Conservative leader. I bet if we investigated his history carefully and uncovered the truth, we'd find that he spent the first thirty or so years of his life in a sensory deprivation chamber learning proper comportment and memorising fatuous, politically correct cliches in preparation for his future starring role in the Brave New World Order. The real question for me is who could possibly be responsible for this unholy experiment in human cloning? If we could discover that we'd find who our new rulers really were.
    Look into my avatar. Look deep into my avatar...

  9. #139
    Senior Member compulsiverambler's Avatar
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    Vince Cable is now in charge of business and BANKS. Best news I've heard all week. Hopefully he'll succeed in splitting them up as he wanted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Its funny I'm exactly the opposite, I'd have supported conservative democrats, if they really where democrats and really where conervative.

    The other approach, socially and fiscally liberal is pretty much everythings for sale, everything has its price, consumerism uber alas.
    I don't see how that's the case. 'Everything has its price' would surely be far-right economics, or maybe corporatism. I'm talking about moderate-centre right economics, and in the context of the UK in which the main parties are currently all quite close together and nowhere near far right economically.

  10. #140
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragashree View Post
    The real question for me is who could possibly be responsible for this unholy experiment in human cloning? If we could discover that we'd find who our new rulers really were.
    Heh, I wouldn't claim to know the answer to that, but interestingly there is a book out which examines the roots of the whole "Cameronite" discourse:

    Zer0 Books - The Meaning of David Cameron - Richard Seymour - The Meaning of David Cameron by Richard Seymour

    I read this guy's last book ("The Liberal Defence of Murder" - a critique of the pro-war "centre left" and a look at its ideological journey) and it was very good, so looking forward to this one.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

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