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  1. #11
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I'm actually really curious: what's the big fuss over an ID card? It doesn't seem like a big deal to me, unless you're required to carry it at all times or something. Not much different than a passport or drivers licence...no?
    From the ACLU:

    Reason #1: A national ID card system would not solve the problem that is inspiring it.

    A national ID card system will not prevent terrorism. It would not have thwarted the September 11 hijackers, for example, many of whom reportedly had identification documents on them, and were in the country legally.

    Terrorists and criminals will continue to be able to obtain -- by legal and illegal means -- the documents needed to get a government ID, such as birth certificates. Yes, these new documents will have data like digital fingerprints on them, but that won't prove real identity - just that the carrier has obtained what could easily be a fraudulent document.

    And their creation would not justify the cost to American taxpayers, which according to the Social Security Administration would be at least $4 billion.It is an impractical and ineffective proposal - a simplistic and naïve attempt to use gee-whiz technology to solve complex social and economic problems.

    Reason #2: An ID card system will lead to a slippery slope of surveillance and monitoring of citizens.

    A national ID card system would not protect us from terrorism, but it would create a system of internal passports that would significantly diminish the freedom and privacy of law-abiding citizens.Once put in place, it is exceedingly unlikely that such a system would be restricted to its original purpose. Social Security numbers, for example, were originally intended to be used only to administer the retirement program. But that limit has been routinely ignored and steadily abandoned over the past 50 years. A national ID system would threaten the privacy that Americans have always enjoyed and gradually increase the control that government and business wields over everyday citizens.

    Reason #3: A national ID card system would require creation of a database of all Americans

    What happens when an ID card is stolen? What proof is used to decide who gets a card? A national ID would require a governmental database of every person in the U.S. containing continually updated identifying information. It would likely contain many errors, any one of which could render someone unemployable and possibly much worse until they get their ""file"" straightened out.And once that database was created, its use would almost certainly expand. Law enforcement and other government agencies would soon ask to link into it, while employers, landlords, credit agencies, mortgage brokers, direct mailers, landlords, private investigators, civil litigants, and a long list of other parties would begin seeking access, further eroding the privacy that Americans have always expected in their personal lives.

    Reason #4: ID cards would function as "internal passports" that monitor citizens' movements

    Americans have long had a visceral aversion to building a society in which the authorities could act like totalitarian sentries and demand ""your papers please!"" And that everyday intrusiveness would be conjoined with the full power of modern computer and database technology. When a police officer or security guard scans your ID card with his pocket bar-code reader, for example, will a permanent record be created of that check, including the time and your location? How long before office buildings, doctors' offices, gas stations, highway tolls, subways and buses incorporate the ID card into their security or payment systems for greater efficiency? The end result could be a nation where citizens' movements inside their own country are monitored and recorded through these ""internal passports.""

    Reason #5: ID cards would foster new forms of discrimination and harassment

    Rather than eliminating discrimination, as some have claimed, a national identity card would foster new forms of discrimination and harassment of anyone perceived as looking or sounding "foreign."That is what happened after Congress passed the Employer Sanctions provision of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1985: widespread discrimination against foreign-looking American workers, especially Asians and Hispanics. A 1990 General Accounting Office study found almost 20 percent of employers engaged in such practices. A national ID card would have the same effect on a massive scale, as Latinos, Asians, Caribbeans and other minorities became subject to ceaseless status and identity checks from police, banks, merchants and others. Failure to carry a national I.D. card would likely come to be viewed as a reason for search, detention or arrest of minorities. The stigma and humiliation of constantly having to prove that they are Americans or legal immigrants would weigh heavily on such groups.

  2. #12
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I'm actually really curious: what's the big fuss over an ID card? It doesn't seem like a big deal to me, unless you're required to carry it at all times or something. Not much different than a passport or drivers licence...no?
    It is quite different. The United States is not supposed to be a country in which the authorities can randomly accost you and check to see "if your papers are in order." You need a passport to enter and a country. You need a driver's license to operate a vehicle. Those make sense. Why should you need to have a National ID card for existing and walking around in public?
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  3. #13
    The Unwieldy Clawed One Falcarius's Avatar
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    Falcarius does not exactly follow domestic politics of the US, but didn't the REAL ID Act of 2005 pretty much introduce identity cards by stealth?
    Quote Originally Posted by Thalassa View Post
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  4. #14
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    It is quite different. The United States is not supposed to be a country in which the authorities can randomly accost you and check to see "if your papers are in order." You need a passport to enter and a country. You need a driver's license to operate a vehicle. Those make sense. Why should you need to have a National ID card for existing and walking around in public?
    I agree, that would be quite scary. Is that what's realistically proposed, though? I see that scenario as very different from just requiring all citizens to have an ID card lying at home somewhere - or even not requiring, just having it as an available option. An ID card *used only as universal ID* sounds like a much-improved version of a birth certificate or here, a health card or SIN card (maybe you guys have the equivalent, SSN cards too?). A reliable photo ID that could replace several government-issued cards, eventually proving far more efficient and cost-effective (maybe even reducing government waste of money?).

    All the mentioned arguments seem to be of the "slippery slope" type, which could be used equally against things currently in place now like drivers licences and passports. Wouldn't it be better to save the objection for when things do get scary, instead of protesting things you think will lead to those scary things?

    I don't really care either way, I was just curious about the protesting of (what seems to me) a relatively trivial thing, compared to other things the government is doing.
    -end of thread-

  5. #15
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcarius View Post
    Falcarius does not exactly follow domestic politics of the US, but didn't the REAL ID Act of 2005 pretty much introduce identity cards by stealth?
    QTF
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

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