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  1. #161
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Yes, and I think that's a problem. Americans tend to think that America is the whole world.


    I was talking about racism in an American context because I don't have any other experience with racism in any other social context. What kind of a pretentious prick would I be if I started talking about "race" in Japan as if I were an authority on the matter even if I know nothing about racial politics in Japan or whether they even have any conception of "race" as we do in America?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    How about we just put it at this:
    Everyone is racist, white people just do it best
    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I once had a black man tell me that racism should not be held against white people... we're born racist and apparently we can't help it.
    Yes, Oberon. Let one black man speak for all people of color. :rolli:

    This is ridiculous. No one's inherently racist. Race is a social construct.

  2. #162
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    I was using "mulatto" ironically there as a multi-racial person myself, pure, hence the quotations.
    So why would you have any problems with my being friends with biracial people, or dating black, East/South Asian, or Jewish women? You brought it up. My personal track record of non-racist behavior is excellent. It's way better than most left-wingers I know, in fact. What is your point?


    This is quickly going into "I'm right and you're wrong! Nuh-uh! But you're wrong and I'm right, loser!" territory.
    Derailing for dummies, anyone?
    You're not interested in examining your own ideology, and you insult my educational background (which I earned from academic achievement, not from privilege). I don't see a legitimate argument. You're basically saying "You're not full of white guilt, ergo, you don't recognize racism." If you believe that, that is OK. I feel sorry for you, but you can believe whatever you want. I have absolutely no guilt, because I haven't done anything wrong.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  3. #163
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    Alright. Change it to "his attitude." Better?
    You've been arguing that the behaviors/intentions/attitudes of individual whites are irrelevant, that they benefit from white privilege regardless. Do you see the contradiction?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #164
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    This is ridiculous. No one's inherently racist. Race is a social construct.
    Just because race is a social construct doesn't mean that people aren't hard-wired to build that construct. All people are tribal... they inherently recognize "us" vs. "them," whether the differences are "racial" or not.

  5. #165
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    This is ridiculous. No one's inherently racist. Race is a social construct.
    Your statement comes with certain implications (since you offered no caveats), that if the concept of race was never created, there would be more equality. Perhaps no one is inherently racist, but everyone is inherently prejudiced. Whether we exercise this prejudice through race, sex, height, weight, dress, religion, wealth, or any other trait, we all practice prejudice in some way.

    If the concept of race didn't exist, we would find other ways to exercise our prejudice.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #166
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You've been arguing that the behaviors/intentions/attitudes of individual whites are irrelevant, that they benefit from white privilege regardless. Do you see the contradiction?
    What I've been arguing for the last two pages is that whites do benefit from racial privilege regardless of whether they want to or not, but in fighting against that privilege as we're all a part of the system they would help bring us closer to a real sense of equality. That has nothing to do with "white guilt" so much as trying to bridge a gap.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    . . .
    Pure, b r i c k w a l l .





    To silence any fear about my intentions and with what "ideology" I align myself I'll quote Magic Poriferan here because he explained the system more simply and more clearly than I can apparently. I guess everyone skipped over his contribution:

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I do believe it's true that there isn't as much cohesiveness among whites (these days), but that's because they are the majority, both in numbers and power. Psychologically, what happens is whites don't think of themselves as a specific group, they think of themselves as "normal" people. Of course that means someone that isn't white isn't normal. Much of the limited opportunities that minorities in this country have comes from non-conspiratorial discrimination. It's not necessarily that there's a group of white people calculating and coordinating the keep the minorities down (though sometimes that is the case). In most cases it's that each individual white person is prejudiced, and acting on their own prejudice. This just happens to result in all the white people acting on their own prejudice at the same time, and with there being more of them, and they being generally more socially powerful, that's all it takes to do damage. No conspiracy required. This is collective action, not planned action.

  7. #167
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    Pure, b r i c k w a l l .





    To silence any fear about my intentions and with what "ideology" I align myself I'll quote Magic Poriferan here because he explained the system more simply and more clearly than I can apparently. I guess everyone skipped over his contribution:
    But I disagree there, too. I've never denied that white people (in North America and Europe, at least) have advantages that other races do not have. I am maintaining that many (even most, in this day and age) white people don't have the type of prejudices we are discussing. I know I don't. The fact that I don't think the way you do about race relations does NOT mean I don't understand race and its implications. It means I believe in a radically different way of trying to solve these problems that I feel is more equitable and in keeping in line with liberal (in the classical sense of the word) ideals. That isn't hard to comprehend, is it? That racism from any angle and for any reason is wrong, but that people like the (white) guy who writes Stuff White People Do are also wrong?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #168
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    After reading a steady stream of red herrings meant to justify and defend extreme racial prejudice (re:white supremacy), I think I'm done here.

  9. #169
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    After reading a steady stream of red herrings meant to justify and defend extreme racial prejudice (re:white supremacy), I think I'm done here.
    King Ad Hominem the First is complaining about red herrings? Really? And where was the purposeful diversion of attention off the topic?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #170
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    That racism from any angle and for any reason is wrong, but that people like the (white) guy who writes Stuff White People Do are also wrong?
    Actually...that site is pretty funny!

    The irony(?) is I'm pretty sure a lot of white people also enjoy that site. I highly doubt it was a small army of people of color soley who shot that website to fame and got it published into book form.

    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    After reading a steady stream of red herrings meant to justify and defend extreme racial prejudice (re:white supremacy), I think I'm done here.
    Nooooo! Come back! I totally missed this line of debate and it was my thread... bah...lemme go over and read through the posts...
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

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