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  1. #131
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Regarding racism, they can definitely understand it. The problem is, it often requires such a big change in perception that it rarely happens. It's really hard to frame information in a way that is understandable to someone with racial privilege.

    There are white anti-racists that work hard to try and change what is happening. Tim Wise, for example. He's Jewish too.
    Because, it seems to me, white people not allowed to have opinions on race => uninterested about racial issues => beliving racial issues only involve other races => perpetuates "white power structure" or whatever you say.

    I do not think you can exactly say Jews are entirely considered "white." The classification of Jews in this debate is complicated and I do not think that it can be summarized so easily as "white".
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #132
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Thanks to that in the present, white people whether they choose it or not are a semi-cohesive group based on skin color and facial features, because it grants them privilege. They're at the top of the food chain. It makes sense to fall in line, when they're rewarded for it. This option will never be available to a non-white.
    Most people are in a semi-cohesive group based on skin color and facial features. Sticking together tends to help most people, regardless of their ethnicity.

    I work in an almost entirely minority area and most of the people above me are minorities and I know for a fact that they openly talk about sticking together against us (something that I, and every other white person I know there, don't do). As far as never being available to non-whites, that doesn't seem realistic. How about not even being able to get a minimum wage job because you don't speak fluent spanish?

    It's a ridiculous opinion, however widely spread, that only non-whites can be discriminated against.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

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    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Because, it seems to me, white people not allowed to have opinions on race => uninterested about racial issues => beliving racial issues only involve other races => perpetuates "white power structure" or whatever you say.

    I do not think you can exactly say Jews are entirely considered "white." The classification of Jews in this debate is complicated and I do not think that it can be summarized so easily as "white".
    Why aren't they allowed? White people's opinions on race are actually the most important as far as society is concerned.

    I agree. Yet, European jews were able to eventually assimilate because of their features. That's all I meant by that statement.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Most people are in a semi-cohesive group based on skin color and facial features. Sticking together tends to help most people, regardless of their ethnicity.

    I work in an almost entirely minority area and most of the people above me are minorities and I know for a fact that they openly talk about sticking together against us (something that I, and every other white person I know there, don't do). As far as never being available to non-whites, that doesn't seem realistic. How about not even being able to get a minimum wage job because you don't speak fluent spanish?

    It's a ridiculous opinion, however widely spread, that only non-whites can be discriminated against.
    Everyone can be discriminated against on a personal level, but who holds it on the institutional level? The level that affects housing, education, and jobs?

    You can move to a white majority place and be free of your problem. Maybe you can try a city that has made an english only law. Where can a minority move to without being discriminated against on an institutional level?

    Ethnic minorities often have no choice but to stick together to help each other maintain any power they might have, or gain any. White supremacy certainly doesn't benefit them.

  5. #135
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    Why aren't they allowed? White people's opinions on race are actually the most important as far as society is concerned.

    I agree. Yet, European jews were able to eventually assimilate because of their features. That's all I meant by that statement.
    Jews are an invisible minority. People still bitch and want to discriminate while they don't realize there's a Jew sitting right next to them. The Jew says nothing.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Jews are an invisible minority. People still bitch and want to discriminate while they don't realize there's a Jew sitting right next to them. The Jew says nothing.
    It's ridiculous. Truly. Jews are definitely still a minority. I think in turn for keeping quiet (similar to asians), these groups get rewarded with upward mobility.

  7. #137
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    It's ridiculous. Truly. Jews are definitely still a minority. I think in turn for keeping quiet (similar to asians), these groups get rewarded with upward mobility.
    Jews have always kept quiet, though. It's a part of the religion.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #138
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Because, it seems to me, white people not allowed to have opinions on race => uninterested about racial issues => beliving racial issues only involve other races => perpetuates "white power structure" or whatever you say.
    That's a terrible strawman.

    You're certainly allowed opinions on race, but if minorities are trying to tell you how race works in this country, you should probably shut up and listen. They know more about racial issues than you do because they are the ones who have to combat the daily effects of what it is to be non-white in this country. They live in a constant state of fear & paranoia because they've experienced mistreatment, bad service, dirty looks, misrepresentation, & so forth repeatedly because of the way they look. They have to take certain precautions to protect themselves and their families from being harmed or taken advantage of that you as a white person rarely have to worry about. You can thank white privilege for that and for the fact that whites are so "uninterested [in] racial issues."

    I do not think you can exactly say Jews are entirely considered "white." The classification of Jews in this debate is complicated and I do not think that it can be summarized so easily as "white".
    They've got club membership and reap many of the benefits of racial privilege. They're white.

  9. #139
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    That's a terrible strawman.

    You're certainly allowed opinions on race, but if minorities are trying to tell you how race works in this country, you should probably shut up and listen. They know more about racial issues than you do because they are the ones who have to combat the daily effects of what it is to be non-white in this country. They live in a constant state of fear & paranoia because they've experienced mistreatment, bad service, dirty looks, misrepresentation, & so forth repeatedly because of the way they look. They have to take certain precautions to protect themselves and their families from being harmed or taken advantage of that you as a white person rarely have to worry about. You can thank white privilege for that and for the fact that whites are so "uninterested [in] racial issues."

    This is nonsense. What happens with the minority group member is the one with the intolerant attitude? Should a white person shut up and listen then, since the minority member AUTOMATICALLY knows more about racial issues than they do? Preposterous.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  10. #140
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Most people are in a semi-cohesive group based on skin color and facial features. Sticking together tends to help most people, regardless of their ethnicity.

    I work in an almost entirely minority area and most of the people above me are minorities and I know for a fact that they openly talk about sticking together against us (something that I, and every other white person I know there, don't do).
    I do believe it's true that there isn't as much cohesiveness among whites (these days), but that's because they are the majority, both in numbers and power. Psychologically, what happens is whites don't think of themselves as a specific group, they think of themselves as "normal" people. Of course that means someone that isn't white isn't normal. Much of the limited opportunities that minorities in this country have comes from non-conspiratorial discrimination. It's not necessarily that there's a group of white people calculating and coordinating the keep the minorities down (though sometimes that is the case). In most cases it's that each individual white person is prejudiced, and acting on their own prejudice. This just happens to result in all the white people acting on their own prejudice at the same time, and with there being more of them, and they being generally more socially powerful, that's all it takes to do damage. No conspiracy required. This is collective action, not planned action.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    As far as never being available to non-whites, that doesn't seem realistic. How about not even being able to get a minimum wage job because you don't speak fluent spanish?
    Never is a strong word. But being at the top of the social ladder is a pretty rough task for minorities.

    As for that spanish thing. This country has one of the biggest monoglot populations in the world, and it could probably stand to change that. But in the mean time, is the situation nearly that bad? I feel like that's a bit exaggerated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    It's a ridiculous opinion, however widely spread, that only non-whites can be discriminated against.
    Sure, other races are prejudiced and discriminate. The key difference is that they have far less power than whites.
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