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  1. #121
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    Citing Individualism, Arizona Tries to Rein in Ethnic Studies in School

    Less than a month after signing the nation’s toughest law on illegal immigration, Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona has again upset the state’s large Hispanic population, signing a bill aimed at ending ethnic studies in Tucson schools.

    Under the law signed on Tuesday, any school district that offers classes designed primarily for students of particular ethnic groups, advocate ethnic solidarity or promote resentment of a race or a class of people would risk losing 10 percent of its state financing.

    “Governor Brewer signed the bill because she believes, and the legislation states, that public school students should be taught to treat and value each other as individuals and not be taught to resent or hate other races or classes of people,” Paul Senseman, a spokesman for the governor, said in a statement on Thursday.

    Judy Burns, president of the governing board of the Tucson schools, said the district’s ethnic studies courses did not violate any of the provisions of the new law and would be continued because they were valuable to the students.

    “From everything I’ve seen, they empower kids to take charge of their own destiny, gain a sense of the value of their own existence and become more determined to be well-educated contributing members of society,” Ms. Burns said.


    The new law, which takes effect at the end of the year, is a victory for Tom Horne, the state superintendent of public instruction, who has fought for years to end Tucson’s ethnic studies programs, which he believes teach students to feel oppressed and resent whites.

    “The most offensive thing to me, fundamentally, is dividing kids by race,” Mr. Horne said.

    “They are teaching a radical ideology in Raza, including that Arizona and other states were stolen from Mexico and should be given back,” he continued, referring to the Mexican-American studies classes. “My point of view is that these kids’ parents and grandparents came, mostly legally, because this is the land of opportunity, and we should teach them that if they work hard, they can accomplish anything.”

    Mr. Horne, a Republican who is running for state attorney general, said he also objected to the textbook “Pedagogy of the Oppressed” by Paulo Freire.

    The schools in Tucson, where about 56 percent of the students are Hispanic, offer Mexican-American studies classes in history and literature and African-American literature classes. Although the classes are open to all students, most of those who enroll are members of the ethnic or racial group being discussed.

    In June 2007, in an open letter to the residents of Tucson, Mr. Horne said, “The evidence is overwhelming that ethnic studies in the Tucson Unified School District teaches a kind of destructive ethnic chauvinism that the citizens of Tucson should no longer tolerate.”

    In that letter, he said he believed that students were learning hostility from La Raza teachers, citing an incident in which students at the Tucson High Magnet School walked out on a speech by his deputy, a Republican Latina, who was trying to refute an earlier speaker who had told the student body that Republicans hate Latinos.

    Sean Arce, director of Tucson’s Mexican-American studies department, said the ethnic studies courses do teach students about the marginalization of different groups in the United States through history.

    “They don’t teach resentment or hostility, in any way, shape or form,” Mr. Arce said. “Instead, they build cultural bridges of understanding, and teach the skills students need to understand history.”

    Furthermore, Mr. Arce said, the ethnic studies courses have been highly effective in reducing students’ dropout rates and increasing their college matriculation well above the national average for Latino students.

    Mr. Arce and Ms. Burns said that they had repeatedly invited Mr. Horne to visit the ethnic studies classes, but that he had declined the invitations.

    “We wish he’d come see it, so he’d know what we do, and not just go on hearsay,” Ms. Burns said.

    Mr. Horne acknowledged that he had never sat in on a class, but said he did not believe that what he would see would be representative of what regularly took place.

    Citing Individualism, Arizona Tries to Rein in Ethnic Studies in School - NYTimes.com
    God forbid, minorities develop a sense of self worth and perception outside of the white lens. White supremacy and the daily life of living as a non-white in America, is far more harmful to the goodwill of races getting along than these "ethnic" classes.

    I see Tom Horne's point though. For the few minorities that haven't succumb to self internalized racism or racism against other minorities, learning about what was done to their people and others at the hands of white americans can be very unsettling. Disturbing, and more than enough reason to get angry. The last thing the entity of white supremacy needs is a legitimate banding together of ethnic minorities bent on overthrowing the system.

    What he's wrong about is the majority of minorities becoming "chauvinistic". It's really simple. They just want equality. To be treated as human beings.

  2. #122
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    A social security and driver's license isn't enough.
    Jeeze how is that NOT racial profiling? The only reason he would've been subject to that much inquiry would be BECAUSE of his race O.o

    And how can SSN + liscence not be enough? There's government ID, and photo ID, that's enough for nearly everything else...

    I carry my birth certificate on me at all times, along with my SIN card and provincial ID (it's essentially a driver's license with NOT A DRIVERS LICENSE printed over it XD ), health card, drivers' license, etc. But most people don't do that, and I've been worried a few times that if I lost my coinpurse I keep this stuff in, I'd be in serious, serious trouble. I can see why people wouldn't want to do this...

    Only reason I carry all that is I've had need for it regularly since headed to college, where any time I need to sign papers for anything I end up needing to have that stuff. Have had several occasions now where I've needed the birth certificate, which's ludicrous really.

    So I can see it happening, but for just pulling over at a truck weigh in station? WTH do they need more than driver's license to begin with? Rawr!

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    I carry my birth certificate on me at all times, along with my SIN card and provincial ID (it's essentially a driver's license with NOT A DRIVERS LICENSE printed over it XD ), health card, drivers' license, etc. But most people don't do that, and I've been worried a few times that if I lost my coinpurse I keep this stuff in, I'd be in serious, serious trouble. I can see why people wouldn't want to do this...
    You're way ahead of most people. You'd be hard pressed to find even 50% of adult Americans that own a certified copy of their own birth certificate.

  4. #124
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    Behind the vote: SB 1070’s risk to citizens (Uri Lerner)

    What would Arizona SB 1070 mean to people on the ground? At this point, it is impossible to know for sure since the law will not go into effect until August at the earliest. The contention in opposition of the law is that SB 1070 will lead to racial profiling and require American Latinos, even those who are citizens or legal residents, to carry verification of immigration status at all times in case they are stopped by police.

    The first dispute to be examined is the argument over what SB 1070 would mean on the ground. At this point, it is impossible to know for sure since the law will not go into effect until July 29th at the earliest. The contention in opposition of the law is that SB 1070 will lead to racial profiling and require American Latinos, even those who are citizens or legal residents, to carry verification of immigration status at all times in case they are stopped by police.

    Before diving into the opposition’s counters to the above claims, it is beneficial to clarify the following. According to the text of SB 1070, Sec. 2 Article B:20-24, the law applies not only in “…any lawful stop, detention, or arrest made by a law enforcement official,” but also, “In the enforcement of any other law or ordinance of a county, city or town or this state.” Therefore, the widely distributed assurance that arrests can only occur in situations where a person would usually be carrying identification is not necessarily true since not all eligible interactions are of a traffic-violation nature.

    Moving on, supporters of the law claim that fears of racial profiling are overplayed. They point to several safeguards added to the law that prevent race from being the only deciding factor in building “reasonable suspicion” and stipulate training programs to help police avoid this pitfall.

    This may be somewhat reassuring, but it overlooks a simple fact that was pointed out at the Pasadena City Council meeting by a member of the public named Lance Charles. As an African American, Mr. Charles explained that he had experienced racial profiling even though it is already illegal and there have already been several attempts to increase Police Departments’ awareness of it in the Los Angeles area. He argued that it is unlikely to be any different with SB 1070 in Arizona.

    Another popular argument in support of SB 1070 is that United States immigration law has already required that legal residents carry identifying documents since 1940. While this may be true, federal law also states (on the same page) that failure to do so is considered a misdemeanor and penalties shall not surpass $100 and/or 30 days of imprisonment. Furthermore federal law stipulates that immigration records would only be available to agencies designated by the Attorney General. This means that if the Arizona police encounter a legal resident alien who does not have these documents, he or she may be arrested and imprisoned before their identity is secured by ICE. Immigrants usually do not usually carry these documents when travelling domestically.

    One could ask why it is that legal immigrants do not usually carry their documents as outlined in federal law. The answer is best illustrated through an analogy. Most legal immigrants consider carrying one’s papers on their person akin to keeping one’s vehicle registration form in their car: if the car is stolen, the thief has the very record of ownership that could could be used to recover it, the victim is more or less at a loss. Similarly, if a legal immigrant’s wallet and green card is stolen (something at least as likely as a car-jacking) then they have no easy defense against identity theft or proof that they belong in the country. If their green card is safely at home, on the other hand, they can have a family member or a friend help them out of the situation, much like people who carry only a copy of their pink slip in their car. The cost-benefit calculation should be clear.

    But even if we excuse the plight of the legal resident immigrants, that still leaves us with the Citizens that may be mistaken for undocumented immigrants. Assuming the citizen has not forgotten it at home, as illustrated in Councilman Gordo’s explanation, one would think that they could simply show their ID or drivers license and all doubt would be dissipated. This, however is not the case under SB 1070. The text of the law indicates

    A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:

    1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.

    2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.

    3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL IDENTIFICATION.

    4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.

    This may seem easy enough so far. However, the fourth category of documents can cause severe problems for out-of-state drivers because some states do not require proof of legal presence in the United States to obtain a license. This means that a Latino American Citizen from out of state, who may have raised “reasonable suspicion” by perhaps having his whole family with him in the car, could legally be arrested after changing lanes without signaling and be kept in custody until a birth certificate or passport is obtained.

    This is compounded by the fact that only about 68 million Americans or 22% even have passports. Probably fewer than 30% have certified birth certificates. Therefore, Arizona SB 1070 may even lead to the legal long-term imprisonment and deportation of an American citizen. That is to say, if police were to make such a grievous error, they would be protected from repercussions.

    Taking these factors into account, a modified opposition to SB 1070 could read as follows: Arizona SB 1070 creates an environment where racial profiling is extremely likely. Although it attempts to address these issues, it is unclear that racial profiling can ever be controlled without changing the underlying system. It may be that the best defense against racial profiling is to require all Arizonans to carry their proof of citizenship or legal residency and that the requirement of “reasonable suspicion” be abandoned. A national identification card would also need to be created in order to account for out-of-state visitors. This would be the fairest method to proceed. It would also be the most authoritarian.
    Behind the vote: SB 1070's risk to citizens | hispanicLA.com

  5. #125
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    What he's wrong about is the majority of minorities becoming "chauvinistic". It's really simple. They just want equality. To be treated as human beings.
    Which is exactly what they are getting, as far as the ban on divisive "ethnic studies" classes are concerned. I'm very very glad that my ancestors were not encouraged to culturally segregate themselves into sullen and mutually antagonistic little ghettos-otherwise I wouldn't be here, and in my place would be various individuals alienated from their own country and fellow citizens. In the old days, it was the racist white majority who wished to keep temporary minorities out of the cross-assimilation "melting pot" (a fact that is already acknowledged and explained in any decent history textbook), now its misguided advocates of multiculturalism. In a country based on immigration, inter-marriage and cross-assimilation, emphasizing the commonalities of the American experience (i.e. common loyalties and ideals alongside a common identity as "American" before anything else) is necessary to prevent de-facto balkanization-a lack of cultural diversity is never going to be a problem under American conditions. Furthermore, one does not need to emphasize any specific minority identity in order to teach about any particular aspect of American history and literature, anymore than one needs to emphasize an "Okie" identity to understand what the latter went through during the "dustbowl" years.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 05-23-2010 at 05:05 PM. Reason: more to add

  6. #126
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Which is exactly what they are getting, as far as the ban on divisive "ethnic studies" classes are concerned.
    They're only divisive when you fail to realize that whiteness is already perceived as the norm, the standard.

    I'm very very glad that my ancestors were not encouraged to culturally segregate themselves into sullen and mutually antagonistic little ghettos-otherwise I wouldn't be here, and in my place would be various individuals alienated from their own country and fellow citizens.
    So... minorities voluntarily segregated themselves from [white] citizens so that they could live in "sullen and mutually antagonistic little ghettos"? They would do that for what reasons, lowtech? Because they like alienation, poverty, struggle, identity crises, a lack of social/cultural capital, along with many of the issues that come with citizens being othered in their own country?

    In the old days, it was the racist white majority who wished to keep temporary minorities out of the cross-assimilation "melting pot" (a fact that is already acknowledged and explained in any decent history textbook), now its misguided advocates of multiculturalism.
    No.

    Racist whites were advocating separatist ideas because they felt superior to non-whites and didn't want to live amongst them. These "misguided advocates of mulitculturalism," on the other hand, have created in response to the overwhelming praise and normalcy of whiteness (i.e., in beauty, academia, the media, film, literature, & so on) programs, organizations, TV channels and other forms of media, courses like ethnic studies, months, holidays, sororities/fraternities, and other outlets to uplift minorities and minority communities all of whom have been demonized, exploited, excluded, or made invisible because there still exists a racial hierarchy in the United States that favors "whiteness" and denouces anything that interferes with that whether or not you want to acknowledge it.

    In a country based on immigration, inter-marriage and cross-assimilation, emphasizing the commonalities of the American experience (i.e. common loyalties and ideals alongside a common identity as "American" before anything else) is necessary to prevent de-facto balkanization
    I'm not quite sure what you're saying. My brain's been mush all day, sorry.

    Yes, we're all different, but often what you describe as "emphasizing the commonalities of the American experience" is usually a way to force minorities to assimilate to ideals that ask them to actively deny themselves and their community.

    And if you didn't know, minorities typically have a very different "American experience" from white people, so those "commonalities" tend to be scarce.

    a lack of cultural diversity is never going to be a problem under American conditions.
    Yeah no that's already a problem.

    Furthermore, one does not need to emphasize any specific minority identity in order to teach about any particular aspect of American history and literature
    That's easy to say when you're the de-facto race.

    anymore than one needs to emphasize an "Okie" identity to understand what the latter went through during the "dustbowl" years.
    Aligning the "Okie" identity to that of minorities is a false analogy. You assume racism is something in the past and that a racial hierarchy, although created a long time ago, doesn't still exist and affect us when in fact it does.

    Then again I probably shouldn't expect an authority on critical race theory from someone named "lowtech redneck."

  7. #127
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    Then again I probably shouldn't expect an authority on critical race theory from someone named "lowtech redneck."
    Nor from anyone who subscribes to the most basic classical liberal principles, which you apparently consider to be "white" principles. I'm familiar enough with "critical race theory," I just reject it as a myopic, limited, and non-constructive view of society.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Which is exactly what they are getting, as far as the ban on divisive "ethnic studies" classes are concerned. I'm very very glad that my ancestors were not encouraged to culturally segregate themselves into sullen and mutually antagonistic little ghettos-otherwise I wouldn't be here, and in my place would be various individuals alienated from their own country and fellow citizens. In the old days, it was the racist white majority who wished to keep temporary minorities out of the cross-assimilation "melting pot" (a fact that is already acknowledged and explained in any decent history textbook), now its misguided advocates of multiculturalism. In a country based on immigration, inter-marriage and cross-assimilation, emphasizing the commonalities of the American experience (i.e. common loyalties and ideals alongside a common identity as "American" before anything else) is necessary to prevent de-facto balkanization-a lack of cultural diversity is never going to be a problem under American conditions. Furthermore, one does not need to emphasize any specific minority identity in order to teach about any particular aspect of American history and literature, anymore than one needs to emphasize an "Okie" identity to understand what the latter went through during the "dustbowl" years.
    People can make up their own mind about the information. Censorship isn't just.

    There's nothing divisive about teaching history. It's not the classes that divide, but fully learning the history that's already happened combined with the racism ethnic minorities experience on a daily basis. That very racism that enslaved non-white people in the past hasn't stopped to this day. It just changed the way it more commonly manifests itself being enforced on an institutional level. This is why minorities are upset. This is why they can't just let it go, and get on with their lives. They're still living it.

    If American ethnic minority history was given equal attention and focus as white/european this gap wouldn't need to be supplemented by extra classes in the first place. Have you heard what Texas is doing with textbooks? Extra classes are necessary. Especially when people in power decide to drastically change the interpretation of how history has happened to benefit them.

    Intermarriage is still a very small percentage in this country, and how a person experiences being American is very different depending on race. If a person doesn't look white or black, they're often reminded constantly that they aren't perceived as American. It can arise with a simple question like, "where are you from"? A state or city in America rarely satisfies this type of question, because what the questioner is really asking is what the person's ethnicity is and the country of origin for that ethnicity. It reminds the minority that their race isn't considered simply American. It's a daily grind for people to assimilate when they're often made to feel like an outsider.

    Europeans were segregated in the beginning. Jews, Italians, and the Irish were not treated all that well. However, the system of white supremacy allowed these groups to blend in eventually. Thanks to that in the present, white people whether they choose it or not are a semi-cohesive group based on skin color and facial features, because it grants them privilege. They're at the top of the food chain. It makes sense to fall in line, when they're rewarded for it. This option will never be available to a non-white.

    What image does the term all-american bring to your mind?

    As for the ghetto statement, I can tell you're an expert on the non-white experience. Thank you for schooling me. You obviously know better.

    Derailing For Dummies (Google cache reconstruction)

  9. #129
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    The conclusion is that a white person can never hope to understand anything, yes?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    The conclusion is that a white person can never hope to understand anything, yes?
    Regarding racism, they can definitely understand it. The problem is, it often requires such a big change in perception that it rarely happens. It's really hard to frame information in a way that is understandable to someone with racial privilege.

    There are white anti-racists that work hard to try and change what is happening. Tim Wise, for example. He's Jewish too.

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