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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    That's a bit of an over generalization. There are more than a few minorities with very good options, and I myself life in a ghetto XD

    I'm about the lowest on the totem pole there is right now, unless I was male. That's about the only way to sink any farther. I live in a ghetto, I make nil for money, I have to work harder and longer just to even get the job in the first place. How is this a privilege? XD
    I think Canadian minorities have a somewhat different life than the ones in America. Canada seems more open to multiculturalism, because of how you approach immigration. It's not without racism though. THE QUEBEC HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION’S RULING ON THE FILIPINO FORK AND SPOON CASE | CRARR

    It's true that they choose to live there, but the Europeans killed over 90% of their people and stole their land. It might be 2010, but that plague on their history stays with them. You discount the kind of psychological effect that can have on people.

    I don't want to comment on white privilege in Canada, because I don't live there. I was under the impression that you guys try to be more equal on a race level.

    Anyway, this is off-topic.

  2. #102
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I think as far as 'ethnic studies' in elementary to high school - the bill is probably targeting teaching anything about Mexico in any history or geography class.
    I don't see any basis for that assumption in the language of the bill.

  3. #103
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    I didn't say anything about history, which everyone needs to learn. I'm not sure what the state board of education's stance is going to be on that. I'm referring to culture and language specifically. I also said less need, not zero need.
    Specialized "ethnic studies" classes almost always include a historical angle (and if they don't, they can't be very imformative).

  4. #104
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 01011010 View Post
    I think Canadian minorities have a somewhat different life than the ones in America. Canada seems more open to multiculturalism, because of how you approach immigration. It's not without racism though. THE QUEBEC HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION’S RULING ON THE FILIPINO FORK AND SPOON CASE | CRARR

    It's true that they choose to live there, but the Europeans killed over 90% of their people and stole their land. It might be 2010, but that plague on their history stays with them. You discount the kind of psychological effect that can have on people.

    I don't want to comment on white privilege in Canada, because I don't live there. I was under the impression that you guys try to be more equal on a race level.

    Anyway, this is off-topic.
    Yeah, sadly it does still exist in some rare situations, can never be truly 100% free of such.

    Seriously, that link is just sad though. Eating with a spoon/knife used to be polite and mandatory for hundreds of years. Forks were considered to be barbaric...

    Utensil use should not matter... I use chopsticks as frequently as I can get away with, because I find them amusing to use and quite good at whot they do. They aren't universally useful, obviously, but for something like pasta they're fun to use and quite reliable. I'm not asian in any way shape or form, but I'm allowed to eat however I feel like.

    It's ridiculous anyone would go GRRR over how someone ate to begin with, unless it was clearly making a large mess, which it did claim was the case in the article... however, linking that to country is dumb.

    The whole "yeu should eat like canadians because yeu live here!" is just asinine. Canada's not the melting pot the states is.

  5. #105
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    [stuff]
    That was rather long so it would take a while to address everything, but here are some thoughts.

    I don't know how it goes in Canada, but I know how it is here.

    First thing first, to my knowledge, what I seem to recall from my race and ethnicity course is that the majority of natives that try to succeed off of their reservations do not have success. It's generally a matter of culture shock. Also keep in mind that the government finds every away to remove the benefits that go to people on reservations as soon as someone moves off of them.

    As a broader point, the situation with natives is very unique, and I question that their circumstances can be compared to any of the other minorities in the USA or Canada.

    I object to you saying that you are at the bottom of the pole, except for being male, which would supposedly put you lower. That's ridiculous. It's one thing to say you aren't feeling benefits, it's another to claim that every demographic has totally inverse the conventional presumed standing in society. You are absolutely not going to be worse off for being a rich, white, christian, male, and however much you might complain about the benefits that others are recieving, I belive the figures will still show you that things are on average, by far better for those demographics.

    Now, it does have a negative effect on those members of one or more of the dominant groups who are in a disenfranchised position. I myself am a white male who has also been poor pretty much all my life. I'm sort of, tenatively not poor right now. But I was born into a dirt poor white family.

    No, I don't feel like I'm getting much benefit from white privilege and male privilege, and that brings about a strong tempation to go against those minority benefity programs, but here are some things to keep in mind.

    One is that while being poor inherently sucks, I can only imagine that being poor and black and female is worse. I don't really think affirmative action or minority scholarships make-up for that, and they seem petty in the broad scheme of things. Besides, there are programs for the poor, too. I know first hand that they are often disappointing, but they do exist, so it's not like your problem is completely ignored.

    Another point is that if you are angry about being poor (as anyone should be) demographic minorities are the wrong target for your anger. Instead of challenging other people who are disenfranchised, try forming a superordinate goal with them against this bullshit system. From the perspective of conflict theory, getting angry at your fellow down-troddens is exactly what the elite would want you to do, because it makes all of you weak compared to them. It's divide and conquer.

    And on the note that I do believe class is key, and money rules this country, it's worth noting that the minorities in this country (and Canada) are much poorer. There is no arguing against that. If money and class are really the source of power, then it would still stand to reason that minorities have less power because of that. Some peculiar aid programs don't do much to change that.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #106
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    more stuff XD
    I'll cut it short since I want to eat and sleep sometime...

    In short, I don't hold anything against minorities, nor am I upset at being low on monies at the moment. I'm a college student for an art school... of course I'm poor right now, that's to be expected.

    And I'm not GRRR over social programs, and understand the purpose behind why they exist, though at the same time I can see that in a decade or two they will cause more harm than good once things turn around more, but it's unlikely they'll be revoked once the issues that required their need are no longer an option.

    It does suck being in the exact position that these programs are designed to prevent, but not being elligible for hardly any of them, which's not a matter of being GRRR at minorities at all, it's a matter of being irritated that it's possible for people to 'fall through the cracks' when there's supposedly stuff in place to prevent that.

    As for the native americans, that's why I'd pointed that out myself, their situation is nowheres near the same as others because of the rather isolated camps and huge amounts of resources provided to such. It's like yeu couldn't possibly intentionally create a better breeding ground for addictions and substance abuses, be it gambling, drugs, alcohol or whot... shove alot of people into a small area, isolate them from everyone, give them nil for employment options if they don't want to leave their home, and then throw large amounts of money at them far in excess of whot's needed to survive. They sit around all day with nothing to do but have large amounts of finances... it's not like they're broke... they get paid more for NOT working than most people do FOR working, AND they don't need to pay taxes and have huge discounts on many things... so it's not that they're poor because of lack of money. They're poor because the only places they have to SPEND that money is on addictive things, which means the vast majority of them eventually get sucked into blowing all their money they do have on very poor choices because they didn't really have any good choices to spend it on in the first place.

    That's a rather unique position noone else has. Honestly, if yeu cut the funding for the reserves significantly, it would limit the chance of that occuring in newer members, but would cripple and destroy the lives of the current population, and would look like racism either way.

    Sadly the reserves need help badly, and because of the way their culture has been shaped over the last few hundred years, they honestly don't really want it... last time a cheiftain brought it up in a tribal meeting that there were too many alcoholics and they needed to consider doing something to try to curb the problem, he got fired. Well maybe not the "last time", it was a few years ago... but still it's kinda sad to see that they've been herded into that situation, and as humans, same as any other human... once they've been herded like sheep, they get fiercely defensive of going the path they were herded into. No matter how bad an idea it is.

    Not sure whot can be done to fix that problem, but it definitely doesn't involve throwing more money at them. That won't solve anything since it caused many of the problems in the first place.

    I'd rather be broke and trying to figure out how to pay for rent, than I would be well off with nowheres to spend it but on drugs/beer/addictions >.<

  7. #107
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Another point is that if you are angry about being poor (as anyone should be) demographic minorities are the wrong target for your anger. Instead of challenging other people who are disenfranchised, try forming a superordinate goal with them against this bullshit system. From the perspective of conflict theory, getting angry at your fellow down-troddens is exactly what the elite would want you to do, because it makes all of you weak compared to them. It's divide and conquer.
    Based on this paragraph, I can only assume that you didn't actually read Katsuni's post.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #108
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Based on this paragraph, I can only assume that you didn't actually read Katsuni's post.
    You assume wrong. I read line for line.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  9. #109
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    You assume wrong. I read line for line.
    Then why'd yeu assume I lumped the native americans in with other situations, or that I was angry at minorities? XD

    I gave no indication of such that I'm aware of, and specifically stated that

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Seriously, the people that should be banding togeather are those of financial levels, not racial ones, because that's where yeur real oppression is for the most part. The cases of actual minority abuse are generally just the people who have bought into this crap about minority wars in the first place, or are jelous that the minorities get so many additional benefits just for being born.

    Which... leaves us right back where we started.

    Nice to see we have such wonderful foresight.

    In our attempts to ensure minorities don't get abused, we instead ensure they WILL.


    I can only figure yeu skimmed or had preconceived notions while reading and only saw whot yeu expected to.

  10. #110
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    Then why'd yeu assume I lumped the native americans in with other situations, or that I was angry at minorities? XD

    I gave no indication of such that I'm aware of, and specifically stated that
    A lot to do with this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsuni View Post
    I will have to go to greater lengths to get a job, more effort to maintain the job, greater skill and aptitude and work ethic to get the same pay, and have to struggle just to afford schooling and am provided none of the aid that someone in my same situation who was a more visable minority would receive.

    I'm about the lowest on the totem pole there is right now, unless I was male. That's about the only way to sink any farther. I live in a ghetto, I make nil for money, I have to work harder and longer just to even get the job in the first place. How is this a privilege? XD
    I took there to be a lot of implicit resentment in those statements, underestimation of the problems minorities have, and a sort of imprecision in your statements that lead me to assume you were talking about a lot more than natives on reservations.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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