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  1. #11
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Update

    I merged AntiSocial's thread based on the same science and updated the OP to reflect the wider range of issues affected by the medical research in question.

    It's like one big old Pandora's pot o' DNA!
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  2. #12
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I just skimmed, but a daughter would be the only possible outcome of a lesbian couple, correct?
    I think I realized this in my late teens and I was totally fine was this. Honestly, I don't think most lesbians who want to conceive would mind. Not that there's anything *against* boys of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    I'm not against anyone using such methods, but I would not want to be on the "bleeding edge" of early adapters who decide to utilize it
    Oh nooo, being an early adopter is fun and low risk when you're talking about hair styles or maybe cheap technology (except, it's never cheap to get the 'first kind' of a new technology) but for anything medical it's just dangerous.

    Basically, becoming a parent is a responsibility that must be accepted if a fertile adult decides to be sexually active and not use contraception. Period. If their baby born is very sick, then there is some capacity to "blame it on fate." If they choose to create the child via an alternative means, then it is uncertain what amount of "natural fate" decided things, as opposed to the amount decided by potential errors in the alternative fertilization process.
    I agree. That's also why you see so many triplets and sextuplets and what not due to new fertilization treatments and with each extra baby, each has increased medical risks.

    I also would apply this blanket responsibility clause on parents who adopt children as well. I believe in mitigated risk, but I don't think parenthood or childhood ever comes with guarantees. It's really...startling to me how some people naturally look at the prospect of parenthood as kinda a transaction and they want 'do overs' if they aren't 100% satisfied with the product. So I can see how anything hinting of 'designer baby' could exacerbate that attitude. However, people are already messing with nature with test tube babies and that multiple egg IVF and the parents seem responsible and take their roles seriously so far (except maybe that octuplet mom...or the oldest mom ever who lied about her age to get inseminated, but those are for other threads)

    And I think though people in general are more prone to feel responsibility and desire to take care of children when they know they are the biological parents vs having no blood ties.

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  3. #13
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    I think I realized this in my late teens and I was totally fine was this. Honestly, I don't think most lesbians who want to conceive would mind. Not that there's anything *against* boys of course.
    Are there lesbian couples that are raising boys? If there are, I wonder how they compare (in outcome) to single mothers raising a son.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #14
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Are there lesbian couples that are raising boys? If there are, I wonder how they compare (in outcome) to single mothers raising a son.
    There is strong evidence that children generally do best with two parents in a committed, loving relationship. There is also lots of evidence that having two parents of the same sex does not negatively affect children psychologically.

    However, there was a recent study on the children of lesbians that found some differences, summary (from a "gays can be cured" site) here: Gay Parenting Does Affect Children Differently, Study Finds -- Authors Believe Gay Parents Have "Some Advantages"

    Whether those differences are good or bad is a matter of perspective.

  5. #15
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    When we meddled with dog reproduction and started to breed them to our interests and goals, we found they ended up with widespread organ issues and a general weakening of the species that tended to die earlier. While they were living they had far more problems than naturally selected dogs (i.e. dogs that just got each other pregnant without human encouragement).

    Just like everyone else I'd like to think it will be different for human breeding, but the greatest predictor for the future is to look at the most comparable model of the past. As soon as we start interfering with reproduction we find that we create more problems than we solve.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Are there lesbian couples that are raising boys? If there are, I wonder how they compare (in outcome) to single mothers raising a son.
    Unless they lack exposure to heterosexual male role models, they probably do significantly better; all else being equal, two parents are better than one.

    I have to admit I have deep reservations about genetically engineering babies this way, though I can't really say right now how much of this intuition is based on pure emotion and how much has a rational basis.

    Frankly, I would much rather gay couples (and straight couples who can't conceive, for that matter) adopt children.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Just like everyone else I'd like to think it will be different for human breeding, but the greatest predictor for the future is to look at the most comparable model of the past. As soon as we start interfering with reproduction we find that we create more problems than we solve.
    That's understandable since we've only been studying the process (scientifically) for a century or two, but it's been going on for billions of years.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #18
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    There is strong evidence that children generally do best with two parents in a committed, loving relationship. There is also lots of evidence that having two parents of the same sex does not negatively affect children psychologically.

    However, there was a recent study on the children of lesbians that found some differences, summary (from a "gays can be cured" site) here: Gay Parenting Does Affect Children Differently, Study Finds -- Authors Believe Gay Parents Have "Some Advantages"

    Whether those differences are good or bad is a matter of perspective.
    I have no idea on actual statistics of adopting girl children of 'what happens to the kids'. I just know that more female babies are adopted out of east Asian than male, and adoption has been the most popular choice for same-sex couples so far. Though through personal observation, I'd say artificial insemination is catching up. And children in stable, loving homes seem to turn out pretty okay - comparatively speaking - across the board?


    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    When we meddled with dog reproduction and started to breed them to our interests and goals, we found they ended up with widespread organ issues and a general weakening of the species that tended to die earlier. While they were living they had far more problems than naturally conceived dogs.

    Just like everyone else I'd like to think it will be different for human breeding, but the greatest predictor for the future is to look at the most comparable model of the past. As soon as we start interfering with reproduction we find that we create more problems than we solve.
    That's true, except from my understanding dog breeding programs were limited solely to actual animal husbandry - no medical intervention, no petrie dishes. It started really as trial and error and only until recently, I'd say past few decades, have dog fanciers (OMG, I just said 'fancier') have organized and shared enough information with one another and put in guidelines for safer and standardized breeding. And a lot of health issues were inherited from the earliest cases of breeding without care or knowing better or over-breeding and are either being bred out. Particularly because many breeds that now number in the thousands started from literally a handful of 'dna donors'.

    I don't think the method mentioned in the articles necessarily pointed to cloning or using the same 4 DNA donations to start a new genetic line of related babies.

    I think it's true people need to be careful and I think that was the rumor I heard about the first viable embryo made from 2 women's eggs. They froze it because they had no idea what would happen if it were allowed to develop to maturity.
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  9. #19
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    That's not even that hard to do, all things considered. The really interesting bits will be once they release controls a bit on genetic manipulation, and stem cells, especially now that fat cells can be altered to act like stem cells these days.

    Then yeu'll have all sorts of new possibilities, in many areas, but one of the biggest, I think, will be male-to-female transgenders being able to bare their own children.

  10. #20
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    In broader terms, all forms of direct genetic mutation in the hands of humanity scares the crap out of me.
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