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  1. #71
    What is, is. Arthur Schopenhauer's Avatar
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    We could send them all down in a diving bell and arm them with duct tape!
    INTJ | 5w4 - Sp/Sx/So | 5-4-(9/1) | RLoEI | Melancholic-Choleric | Johari & Nohari

    This will not end well...
    But it will at least be poetic, I suppose...

    Hmm... But what if it does end well?
    Then I suppose it will be a different sort of poetry, a preferable sort...
    A sort I could become accustomed to...



  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentMind View Post
    We could send them all down in a diving bell and arm them with duct tape!
    Duct tape fixes almost everything!

  3. #73
    Senior Member JHBowden's Avatar
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    Lateralus, why is the oil leak important? No one has yet to explain this; it is taken as an article of faith. You've said that you're angry and want to liquidate people, perhaps USSR style-- that merely restates that you believe the oil leak is important; a restatement of a conclusion is not an argument justifying a conclusion. As long as BP pays for the damages, the mindless hysteria has no rational basis.

    Banal, insipid sentimentality about cute animals was brought up as a reason to care yet again. We live in a society that slaughters, ahem, aborts millions of baby humans every year, and people are going to get sentimental about animals? I thought progressives were made of sterner stuff.

    Anyway, the idiots who believe that government can eliminate risk from our lives have a quasi-religious view of government, as if our superiors can perform miracles with magic hopenchangey words. That's why they think something can be done above what is being done.

  4. #74
    Senior Member JHBowden's Avatar
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    Antisocial_one: Think a little bit about this, make connections.
    Here are my connections: environmentalism, like multiculturalism, is based on a irrational, perspectivist way of looking at the world. An environmentalist lives in fearful awe of a universe she does not understand, which is why she understands nature in terms of the inexplicable, portentous, and sacrosanct. Dumb movies like Avatar are literally how environmentalist "brights" think-- harm mother nature, and she'll get you like the boogeyman in the end, like karma.

    I have a physics degree; I believe in a rational, lawful universe. I don't believe in karma.

    The "it's all connected" stuff is just a phrase-- oil leaks into our oceans all of the time. The problem is that here, it is all in one spot. The damage will be along the Gulf coast, in addition to businesses who need a clean gulf to thrive. Again, who can justify the spaz? This isn't exactly the apocalypse.

  5. #75
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    The BP took the risk, so BP should pay for the losses they cause.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  6. #76
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHBowden View Post
    As long as BP pays for the damages,
    Oh, goodie! Another thread where I can run around saying prevention is better than reaction and get dismissed :/

    Paying for damages and paying for repairs are not the same thing. What BP has done is irreparable, and there is no chance that everyone affected by it is going to receive the full amount they are owed - that's just counting humans.

    Not to mention, money doesn't exist, whereas the environment does. Money alone won't replace the environment; in order to do that, the money has to be used to purchase services and resources which do exist - and since they exist, they could have been used elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by JHBowden View Post
    Anyway, the idiots who believe that government can eliminate risk from our lives have a quasi-religious view of government, as if our superiors can perform miracles with magic hopenchangey words. That's why they think something can be done above what is being done.
    This, I agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by JHBowden View Post
    Again, who can justify the spaz? This isn't exactly the apocalypse.
    Neither was Tchernobyl, but there were a lot of nuclear power plants being run in the same way at the time...
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  7. #77
    Senior Member JHBowden's Avatar
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    Neither was Tchernobyl, but there were a lot of nuclear power plants being run in the same way at the time...
    If people want tighter regs on specific equipment, fine, still nothing to spaz about. But right now from the hysterics, it is all woulda coulda shoulda.

    No one ever foresees events like 911, Columbia, Katrina and so forth, but everyone wants heads chopped off afterward. But when someone does highlight a possible danger and advocates precautions-- nukes in the hands of suicidal Iranians, the economic recklessness of adding to unsustainable entitlement programs, the painful consequences of unrestricted immigration -- well, then we're giving into fear, spreading hate, presenting false choices hope supposedly can overcome, and so forth.

  8. #78
    Energizer Bunny Resonance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHBowden View Post
    If people want tighter regs on specific equipment, fine, still nothing to spaz about. But right now from the hysterics, it is all woulda coulda shoulda.

    No one ever foresees events like 911, Columbia, Katrina and so forth, but everyone wants heads chopped off afterward. But when someone does highlight a possible danger and advocates precautions-- nukes in the hands of suicidal Iranians, the economic recklessness of adding to unsustainable entitlement programs, the painful consequences of unrestricted immigration -- well, then we're giving into fear, spreading hate, presenting false choices hope supposedly can overcome, and so forth.
    Oh. Okay. Yeah, I'm not saying we need to chop BP execs' heads off or anything. But I do think that a number of things went seriously wrong in sequence, and all of them were preventable. I'm usually in the camp of advocating precautions, though. To a degree that could be considered radical... *sigh*
    The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it, but the way those atoms are put together. ~ rCoxI ~ INfj ~ 5w6 so/sp

  9. #79
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHBowden View Post
    Lateralus, why is the oil leak important? No one has yet to explain this; it is taken as an article of faith. You've said that you're angry and want to liquidate people, perhaps USSR style-- that merely restates that you believe the oil leak is important; a restatement of a conclusion is not an argument justifying a conclusion. As long as BP pays for the damages, the mindless hysteria has no rational basis.

    Banal, insipid sentimentality about cute animals was brought up as a reason to care yet again. We live in a society that slaughters, ahem, aborts millions of baby humans every year, and people are going to get sentimental about animals? I thought progressives were made of sterner stuff.
    I have already stated that it has negatively impacted human lives (without saying anything about the impact on wildlife). BP should be held responsible for its mistakes. They should be forced to pay full economic damages, not some arbitrarily capped dollar figure. Those economic damages would be greater than the liquidated value of BP, which is why I advocate liquidation. That includes the devastated fishing and shrimping and tourism industries, among others.

    Anyway, the idiots who believe that government can eliminate risk from our lives have a quasi-religious view of government, as if our superiors can perform miracles with magic hopenchangey words. That's why they think something can be done above what is being done.
    The government cannot eliminate risk. However, it can punish those who miscalculate their risk due to negligence and cause harm to others. This concept seems to offend you.

    Your deliberate attempts to mischarcterize my previous response is amusing because it's so obvious and so poorly executed.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #80
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IlyaK1986 View Post
    Well here's the thing--animals might be stupid, but they're innocent. Seeing that picture of that pelican made a little part of me die. Sure, we eat certain critters for meat. Okay, fine...but this oil spill simply needlessly kills so many animals for no reason whatsoever, and then ruins so many more lives...

    As for the CEO, someone should put his head on a pike. I know China once executed the head of its equivalent of the FDA when bad milk (IIRC) was being shipped out.
    Those animals have an economic value. It may be impossible to precisely calculate, but all of those pelicans, turtles, algae, etc. have an indirect impact on human economic activity.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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