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  1. #101
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I hope people don't think corn is the answer. That crop requires a lot of water, which results in farmers draining aquifers more quickly than they can replenish themselves.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #102
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I hope people don't think corn is the answer. That crop requires a lot of water, which results in farmers draining aquifers more quickly than they can replenish themselves.
    Correct. We've already sucked up so much of the Colorado River with creation of the Hoover Dam and massive irrigation to farmers that it no longer makes it to the Gulf of Mexico California, it just ends in a trickle in the midst of the vast mexican Desert.

    Sure there are other rivers, but there are also other alternative fuel choices that don't require messing with them.

    The alternative energy solution will have to be multi-faceted, natural gas, ethanol, nuclear, "clean" coal plants, windmill farms, solar, etc., all have their place as part of the total solution, but none can replace oil on its own.
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  3. #103
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    The alternative energy solution will have to be multi-faceted, natural gas, ethanol, nuclear, "clean" coal plants, windmill farms, solar, etc., all have their place as part of the total solution, but none can replace oil on its own.
    I disagree. Nuclear can do it all, including providing the energy to catalyze hydrocarbon motor fuels out of water and carbon dioxide.

  4. #104
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I disagree. Nuclear can do it all, including providing the energy to catalyze hydrocarbon motor fuels out of water and carbon dioxide.
    From a political perspective nuclear cannot do it all, there is no way that consumers everywhere will accept fission reactors/nuclear power plants in their backyards with open arms. Where will all the waste go? Did Yucca Mountain ever open?

    Also, there are too many entrenched alternative energy tycoons waiting to make thier killing, aka T. Boone Pickens.

    PickensPlan: The Plan

    Oh, and we can all relax now. President Obama is taking charge of the oil spill in the Gulf:

    Obama seeks to take charge of BP disaster - Disaster in the Gulf- msnbc.com
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  5. #105
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Correct. We've already sucked up so much of the Colorado River with creation of the Hoover Dam and massive irrigation to farmers that it no longer makes it to the Gulf of Mexico, it just ends in a trickle in the midst of the vast mexican Desert.

    Sure there are other rivers, but there are also other alternative fuel choices that don't require messing with them.

    The alternative energy solution will have to be multi-faceted, natural gas, ethanol, nuclear, "clean" coal plants, windmill farms, solar, etc., all have their place as part of the total solution, but none can replace oil on its own.
    I'm sure you mean the Gulf of California.

    I was actually referring to the Ogallala aquifer, a massive underground lake in the Midwest.

    Ogallala Aquifer - depth, important, system, source
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #106
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'm sure you mean the Gulf of California.
    Yes, I did! Fixed! This thread is about the Gulf of Mexico, circuits crossed, fat finger typing...


    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I was actually referring to the Ogallala aquifer, a massive underground lake in the Midwest.

    Ogallala Aquifer - depth, important, system, source
    Wow. That's one for me to read up on.

    Here in North Florida, there is an abundance of good water in the North Florida Aquifer. But, in Central and South Florida (where >80% of the state's population resides) there is nasty, sulfur tainted water from the South Florida aquifer. Every few years some boneheaded proposition hits the state legislature, requesting that a "pipeline" be built from the North Florida aquifer into a water delivery system for the the rest of the state. Then everyone freaks out and burns the bill into ashes, and the proposal lies dormant for another year or two. Sooner or later Orlando, West Palm Beach, Miami, etc. will run out of fresh water. At that point they had better look into desalination plants...
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

  7. #107
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    Here in North Florida, there is an abundance of good water in the North Florida Aquifer. But, in Central and South Florida (where >80% of the state's population resides) there is nasty, sulfur tainted water from the South Florida aquifer. Every few years some boneheaded proposition hits the state legislature, requesting that a "pipeline" be built from the North Florida aquifer into a water delivery system for the the rest of the state. Then everyone freaks out and burns the bill into ashes, and the proposal lies dormant for another year or two. Sooner or later Orlando, West Palm Beach, Miami, etc. will run out of fresh water. At that point they had better look into desalination plants...
    They should look into desalination plants. And so should California.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #108
    ¡MI TORTA! Amethyst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    I disagree. Nuclear can do it all, including providing the energy to catalyze hydrocarbon motor fuels out of water and carbon dioxide.
    Where's nuclear fusion when you need it most?
    Speaking of which, have they succeeded in creating such energy?

  9. #109
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by tawanda View Post
    Where's nuclear fusion when you need it most?
    Speaking of which, have they succeeded in creating such energy?
    Reassembling hydrocarbons out of component elements is straightforward chemistry; all it requires is sufficient electricity to do the job.

    Nuclear fusion has been successfully initiated a number of times, but it is either too abundant to put to practical use (as in the hydrogen bomb) or it does not yield as much energy as was required to initiate the reaction (as in the various Tokamak reactor experiments out there).

    Personally, I don't believe the final verdict has yet been reached on the work of Pons & Fleischmann, but if that did pan out it would still be years before we put it to work on a commercial scale.

  10. #110
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    Reassembling hydrocarbons out of component elements is straightforward chemistry; all it requires is sufficient electricity to do the job.

    Nuclear fusion has been successfully initiated a number of times, but it is either too abundant to put to practical use (as in the hydrogen bomb) or it does not yield as much energy as was required to initiate the reaction (as in the various Tokamak reactor experiments out there).

    Personally, I don't believe the final verdict has yet been reached on the work of Pons & Fleischmann, but if that did pan out it would still be years before we put it to work on a commercial scale.

    Oberon, I'd love to see fusion be a reality in our lifetime. But the sinister side of me says that even if we did have limitless energy, someone is going to want to profit from it. Similarly, I always heard that "America could feed the world tomorrow" but that hasn't happened. If a cure for cancer were found, would it be released? Maybe, maybe not. Lots of money to be made on food, energy, sick people, etc. No one is just going to give away energy even if fusion does become commercially available. Do you think we would get some sort of subsidy from it, kind of like the folks living near the Tennessee Valley Authority did? I'm curious as to how you think it might implement...
    --------------------
    Type Stats:
    MBTI -> (E) 77.14% | (i) 22.86% ; (S) 60% | (n) 40% ; (T) 72.22% | (f) 27.78% ; (P) 51.43% | (j) 48.57%
    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

    Quotes:
    "If somebody asks your MBTI type on a first date, run". -Donna Cecilia
    "Enneagram is psychological underpinnings. Cognitive Functions are mental reasoning and perceptional processes. -Sanjuro

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