User Tag List

12311 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 128

Thread: Ban the Burqa

  1. #1
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,545

    Ban the Burqa

    I notice more and more muslim women are wearing the full burqa in Canberra.

    And those wearing the full burqa won't even speak to me in public, not even in the grounds of the University, where open discussion is part of University life. However I have spoken to their husbands.

    And it is becoming plain, at least to me, that the burqa is not just an item of religious clothing, but is the flag of Islam.

    The French President, Nicolas Sarkozy, wants to ban the burqa in public places.

    So do you think we should ban the burqa as well?

  2. #2
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,860

    Default

    I don't know who 'we' are in your question, but in the US I would say we should not ban it in public places. In public schools, I would support such a move on the grounds of separation of church and state.

  3. #3
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    331

    Default

    In the US, we don't ban religious practices, as long as they harm no-one.

    Most of the hijab-wearing women I know tend to be gregarious, but the Muslims in the US tend to be descended from well-educated refugees, while the Muslims in France are the uneducated poor from Turkey and the Middle East.

  4. #4
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    8,193

    Default

    Maybe you should wear a burqa too and see if that helps? They may be intimidated by your ferocious moustache.



  5. #5

    Default

    If you ban the burqa, you have to ban the yarmulke and cross pendants, too. I can't see that gaining any traction, nor should it. Banning the burqa, even in schools, isn't separation of church and state. It's the state interfering with freedom of religion.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

    Johari
    /Nohari

  6. #6
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    173 so/sx
    Posts
    18,450

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I notice more and more muslim women are wearing the full burqa in Canberra.

    And those wearing the full burqa won't even speak to me in public, not even in the grounds of the University, where open discussion is part of University life. However I have spoken to their husbands.

    And it is becoming plain, at least to me, that the burqa is not just an item of religious clothing, but is the flag of Islam.

    The French President, Nicolas Sarkozy, want to ban the burqa in public places.

    So do you think we should ban the burqa as well?
    Not really. Even if it is the "flag of Islam", I don't see what's wrong with that. If the women want to wear it, and if no man is forcing them to wear it, and if they feel about the burqa as many women feel about the hijab or headscarf (i.e. that it IS a flag for Islam, and it makes them feel proud to be Muslim, and closer to God), then there's no problem. It's like wearing a cross necklace, or Christian symbol-emblazoned shirts, if you want to show the world that you're proud to be a Christian.

    My only issue with the burqa - besides the fact that it has been used as an oppressive tool against women in places such as Afghanistan - is the legal issue of identification. How are you supposed to have a photo ID if no one knows what your face looks like?

    But besides those issues, if the woman chooses to wear it because of her own personal beliefs and her own relationship with God, it's her choice. No big deal.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
    Coriolis: "Is that the ESTJ Serenity Prayer?"



    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/7w6/3w4 so/sx (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  7. #7
    likes this gromit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    6,652

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    In the US, we don't ban religious practices, as long as they harm no-one.

    Most of the hijab-wearing women I know tend to be gregarious, but the Muslims in the US tend to be descended from well-educated refugees, while the Muslims in France are the uneducated poor from Turkey and the Middle East.
    Hijab is different from burqa... you cannot see a person's eyes or even necessarily identify someone in a full burqa, or at least that is my understanding.

    I am very conflicted about this whole topic, because I think if people want to dress a certain way to show their devotion then they should be allowed to. It is part of religious expression, which I support. However, there are practicality issues about not being able to identify a person...

    I read an interesting opinion article last year during the Iran election situation...

    Further, it's important to situate this moment, in which we must recognize how both forced veiling and forced unveiling operated as disciplinary state edicts --often enacted violently on female bodies by male soldiers or police-- at discrete political times to instrumentally shape a feminine civic body. As such I would issue two cautions. The first, we cannot necessarily know from how a woman ties her headscarf what the shape of her politics might be, even though clothing clearly does matter politically. And second, we might commit further violence (refusing her complex personhood, for instance) in assuming that we can.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  8. #8
    likes this gromit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    6,652

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    My only issue with the burqa - besides the fact that it has been used as an oppressive tool against women in places such as Afghanistan - is the legal issue of identification. How are you supposed to have a photo ID if no one knows what your face looks like?
    Ack sorry I didn't realize you had posted on the same idea, EJCC
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  9. #9
    morose bourgeoisie
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    3,860

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    If you ban the burqa, you have to ban the yarmulke and cross pendants, too. I can't see that gaining any traction, nor should it. Banning the burqa, even in schools, isn't separation of church and state. It's the state interfering with freedom of religion.

    The state already limits the expression of religion in public schools. As for clothing, it would have to be on a school by school basis.
    A burqa is a direct symbal of Islam, just as a yarmulka or a cross pendant is a symbol. Their use should also be discouraged IMO...

  10. #10
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,545

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    If you ban the burqa, you have to ban the yarmulke and cross pendants, too. I can't see that gaining any traction, nor should it. Banning the burqa, even in schools, isn't separation of church and state. It's the state interfering with freedom of religion.
    This is ironic as muslims from all over the world tell me the Koran does not support the separation of mosque and State, nor does it support freedom of religion. And as it is the Word of Allah, nor do good muslims.

    However the Australian Constitution mandates the separation of church and state and guarantees freedom of religion.

    But even the discussion of this cognitive dissonance, is not allowed.

    This is understandable for two reasons as cognitive dissonance is ruled out by the certainty of Koran, and secondly, certainty saves us from the emotional pain of cognitive dissonance.

    This is quite like this site where the pain of cognitive dissonance is routinely met with ad hominem attacks.

    And such ad hominem attacks, such as against Theo van Gogh and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, are hallmarks of Islam.

    Maturity requires we do not take cognitive dissonance personally and that we learn to bear the emotional pain of cognitive dissonance in the interests of discovery.

Similar Threads

  1. Ban the Poster Above You
    By wolfy in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 623
    Last Post: 12-01-2017, 01:27 PM
  2. The Banned and The Damned
    By Haight in forum Official Decrees
    Replies: 331
    Last Post: 11-30-2017, 07:12 PM
  3. Ban The Person Below You
    By Mal12345 in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 12-01-2011, 12:57 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO