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Thread: Ban the Burqa

  1. #61
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The question is not whether or not the burqa has positive or negative effect on society. The question is whether or not banning the burqa would. It's a bad idea to go around banning things just because you don't like them.
    I see those two things as the same. You wouldn't contemplate banning a thing, unless you have already decided that it has a potential for negative effect...

  2. #62
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    I am not muslim so I can not understand so I can not form an educated opinion.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  3. #63
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Couldn't I then counter argue that You can't go around not banning stuff just because you don't like banning stuff?

    Everybody wants the world to be perfect in regard to their point of view. At some point decisions have to be made and it's impossible to please everyone.

    I will also add democracy is supposed to be about majority rules. NOT special interest, so if more people dislike something than not, why not ban it?
    You could argue that, but it would be a poor argument. We ban things like murder, rape, and theft because those are actions where someone is infringing on the rights of another. When victimless "crimes" are banned, we get situations like the ones we had with alcohol prohibition (and what we have now with drug prohibition). You get some human trafficking because prostitution is banned. You get organized crime involvement in gambling where it is illegal. There are always unintended consequences when you ban behaviors where there is no victim because there is a demand.

    Banning the burqa would not eliminate the demand. However, it would serve to alienate people from that culture.

    I don't know of any nation that practices direct democracy. Most nations (at least first-world nations) practice some form of representative democracy which offers better protections to minority groups than direct democracy (mob rule).
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #64
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nebbykoo View Post
    I see those two things as the same. You wouldn't contemplate banning a thing, unless you have already decided that it has a potential for negative effect...
    I don't understand what you are trying to say here.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #65
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I am not muslim so I can not understand so I can not form an educated opinion.
    and I think that you probably made the smartest post in the thread there
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  6. #66
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't understand what you are trying to say here.
    Never mind. I misread your last post.

  7. #67
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I am not muslim so I can not understand so I can not form an educated opinion.
    But why would you want to understand or have an educated opinion?
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You could argue that, but it would be a poor argument. We ban things like murder, rape, and theft because those are actions where someone is infringing on the rights of another. When victimless "crimes" are banned, we get situations like the ones we had with alcohol prohibition (and what we have now with drug prohibition). You get some human trafficking because prostitution is banned. You get organized crime involvement in gambling where it is illegal. There are always unintended consequences when you ban behaviors where there is no victim because there is a demand.

    Banning the burqa would not eliminate the demand. However, it would serve to alienate people from that culture.

    I don't know of any nation that practices direct democracy. Most nations (at least first-world nations) practice some form of representative democracy which offers better protections to minority groups than direct democracy (mob rule).
    Victimless crimes get banned all the time. they are generally based on accepted cultural practices, for example walking around naked or only being allowed to be married to one person at a time.

    We are not talking about crime though, we are talking about banning a form of expression and it's infringement on personal rights.
    And then I bring up my original point which is not such a weak argument after all.. Where does the rights of one person's comfort and personal expression end and where do another's begin?
    Since personal rights are highly subjective, why would someone's right to see the face every citizen they come into contact with over power the right of another to hide that face or likewise? Somebody gets hurt in each case.
    The only solution is majority rules.. meaning less people get hurt.

    Then you speak of alienation of culture. So what of the person who feels alienated by someone who they feel hides from them? What about the culture of the society where wearing a mask is not considered an acceptable practice??
    Who is alienating who?

    So going to your concept of demand.. if more people demand something than not, then more people should get what they want. This is why many bans are already in place over many "victimless crimes" .

    Just saying..

  9. #69
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I think the only sort of regulation on the issue I might support would be making it a crime to force someone to wear a burqa, with the intent being to stop family members from pressuring women. The benefit to this approach would be that it would remove some of the responsibility from the women and put it on the shoulders of her family. Obviously this is impractical, as it would be difficult, if not impossible, to enforce.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I think the only sort of regulation on the issue I might support would be making it a crime to force someone to wear a burqa, with the intent being to stop family members from pressuring women. The benefit to this approach would be that it would remove some of the responsibility from the women and put it on the shoulders of her family. Obviously this is impractical, as it would be difficult, if not impossible, to enforce.
    It would be.. but it is a completely sane and rational approach. and a decent compromise.

    Too bad people are involved

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