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  1. #81
    Member Amphion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Define: "Good people." Define: "Bad people."

    "The desire to please God."
    That comment suggests that any behavior can be justified by claiming: "Oh, we're just 'good people' trying to please God."
    Whose version of God might that be?

    There are those who commit violent acts of terror, thinking they are "pleasing God."
    They may consider themselves "good people," too.
    And according to you, they should be "met with understanding."
    I wonder if you would feel that way if someone you cared about was killed on 9-11.

    After all, those "dear fellas" killed all those people trying to get to the 72 virgins in the sky.
    Praise to Allah, kiddo. Praise to Allah. Those terrorists were "good people."
    They just wanted to please God - their version of God.
    My parents are good people, and that's who I was referring to.

    The complete quote is as follows:

    "When good people make decisions because they sincerely believe they are doing the right thing, and those decisions are not based on fear or hate, but the desire to please God, then I think they should be met with understanding."

    The way you repackaged my position left it weaker.

    If you're going to argue with me, could you at least make it interesting?

    As for defining "good" and "bad" that is an entirely different subject. It's worthy of serious discussion, but why poison it by associating it with this thread?

  2. #82
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The drama.
    I'll stop raging against this injustice, if you agree to let people marry whoever they want, and completely ignore any LGBT you see over the course of your life.

    Deal?

  3. #83
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont think there's moral equivalence between race and homosexuality Seymour, I told you that before, I can understand why the liberals in the US try to get the kudos which goes with allusions to the black civil rights crusades though, its the same reasont that Bush co. wanted to liken themselves to the heroes of the second world war.
    Well, I didn't claim they were equivalent, just pointing out there were lots of analogies to choose from, and depending on your choice the moral interpretation changes. Analogies are helpful, but never exact. There are lots of analogies we could run through... like if you brother was living with his unmarried girlfriend... would she be allowed? How about divorced and remarried? How about girlfriend with whom he was having sex but not married? If he were sexually active with his fiancé, would that be a bad enough example to disinvite her?

    None of those are really equivalent... which was the point I was trying to make about the polygamy analogy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    I dont believe its sinful, I think that was ever so slightly facetious though.
    Well, if non-procreative sex is always bad, then it is always bad. Clearly there's an exception for post-menapausal women (and their husbands). I don't think their sex is sinful either, but it seems inconsistent to me. Does it seem so to you?

  4. #84
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Define: "Good people." Define: "Bad people."

    "The desire to please God."
    That comment suggests that any behavior can be justified by claiming: "Oh, we're just 'good people' trying to please God."
    Whose version of God might that be?

    There are those who commit violent acts of terror, thinking they are "pleasing God."
    They may consider themselves "good people," too.
    And according to you, they should be "met with understanding."
    I wonder if you would feel that way if someone you cared about was killed on 9-11.

    After all, those "dear fellas" killed all those people trying to get to the 72 virgins in the sky.
    Praise to Allah, kiddo. Praise to Allah. Those terrorists were "good people."
    They just wanted to please God - their version of God.
    The big cat speaks the truth. ^
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    BIG 5 -> Extroversion 77% ; Accommodation 60% ; Orderliness 62% ; Emotional Stability 64% ; Open Mindedness 74%

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  5. #85
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amphion View Post
    "When good people make decisions because they sincerely believe they are doing the right thing, and those decisions are not based on fear or hate, but the desire to please God, then I think they should be met with understanding."
    What if hate pleases God, as Osama and Phelps preach?

  6. #86

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    Cheers Halla for getting the thread back on track.

    I'm going to remember that well versed cowards one, I love it

  7. #87
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    Perhaps you would understand my concern, if you had friends who were assaulted by punks with "honest abhorrences for homosexuality".

    More publicly...


    This young man, currently in training to be a policeman, had his skull smashed in by a group of young punks as he was leaving a gay bar.

    Nobody is going to prison, even jail, for this assault...
    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The drama.
    Your mocking tone is revolting, Lark.

  8. #88
    Member Amphion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    What if hate pleases God, as Osama and Phelps preach?
    Thank you for at least using the Socratic method.

    I think religion has done a lot of harm to a lot of people. But I think there is a subset of religious people who could be engaged in a constructive dialog.

    My father is a graduate of seminary, and generally a very conservative guy (INTJ). My brother (ENTJ) once mentioned that he thought it was "ridiculous" that gays should be allowed to adopt children.

    My father nonchalantly said, "What about a blind, developmentally challenged baby in an orphanage that no one else wanted. What if a very loving gay couple wanted to take that child home?"

    My brother had no answer.

    I can guarantee you that my brother's views on gay adoption were softened that day. But had someone gotten angry at him and called him "homophobic" it would have just entrenched him in his position.

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagleseven View Post
    I'll stop raging against this injustice, if you agree to let people marry whoever they want, and completely ignore any LGBT you see over the course of your life.

    Deal?
    Raging against injustice? Hmm, yeah, you been lucky to be born in an age where this is it.

  10. #90
    Senior Member eagleseven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Raging against injustice? Hmm, yeah, you been lucky to be born in an age where this is it.
    That's what they told blacks in 1866.

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