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  1. #101
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    A reminder to all members - heated debate is fine here, insults are not and will result in warnings or infractions. Public approval to insults also is over the line.

    (Wait, isn't this thread about abusing free speech? Where's Alanis Morisette when you need her?)

  2. #102
    Priestess Of Syrinx Katsuni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    A reminder to all members - heated debate is fine here, insults are not and will result in warnings or infractions. Public approval to insults also is over the line.

    (Wait, isn't this thread about abusing free speech? Where's Alanis Morisette when you need her?)
    Off doing a 'nude' protest in a fake body suit.



    I've tried to avoid this thread for the most part since it's getting back onto the ZOMG GAYS thing again.

    Fact is, that Lark is irrationally Grrr @ gays.

    And fact is, that people are blatantly bashing/insulting him rather than addressing the issues themselves.

    Both sides are being stupid, I want nothing to do with either one.

    At least amphibious is trying to explain themselves, so yay +1 there x#ofposts.

    For the sake of everyone, please just calm down and stop throwing a fit over the gay stuff, or the pope, or whotever. If yeu insult people rather than argue the points at hand, then yeu're just strengthening their beliefs, rather than changing them, shooting yeur own message in the foot, and seriously, if yeu're RIGHT, then the last thing we need are people like yeu on its' side. Go join the other camp, since yeu're doing a better job of harming the message and yeu'd be better off supporting lark's cause with yeur comments.

    Just goes to show that rudeness and inconsideration does not have anything to do with being right or wrong.

  3. #103
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    It was clear (to me at least) that if you had a dog in the fight, you weren't showing your cards.
    Now I have horrible flashes of Big Gay Al's Big Gay Dog barking through my mind... Thanks!
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #104
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Just a couple of things for the record, my opposition and honest abhorrence for homosexuality isnt anything to do with my faith, which is accepting of homosexuality provided that it isnt practiced
    I happen to find that POV espoused by the Church as ridiculous from a rational angle, honestly: "Being gay is okay as long as you're not gay or at least pretend to be straight."

    That is decidedly not acceptance.

    But I think the issue here is the categorization of homosexuality with acts such as murder, theft, rape, and other personal violations of other human beings against their choice and will.

    If you believe homosexuality fits in that cluster, then you could draw a comparison case -- "It's okay to feel murderous impulses, as long as you do not act on them" or "It's okay to be sexually attracted to a man as long as you and a few of your friends do not drag him into a dark alley and rape him." Thus, "it's okay to feel homosexual desire as long as you do not act on it."

    However, if you do not categorize homosexuality into the "violation of another human being" category but just consider it a preference, then of course it's going to seem a horrendous injustice to be dismissed and treated as if you were a criminal. And anyone who sunders family because of it, or shuns people because of it, if the person is in all other ways acceptable, is really not a "good" human being at all, they ARE biased and phobic.

    I think *THIS* is where the disagreement is actually occurring -- the categorization of homosexuality. It drives the rest of the conflict.

    I also dont experience any fear of either homosexuals or homosexual acts either.
    While I do not want you to say more than you feel comfortable saying, then could you please explain why you won't let your brother bring his partner to your house? Are they a-holes or something? Do they disrespect you? Or is it really just the gay thing?

    I don't understand your behavior, and you've sort of hedged (unless I've missed it -- it's possible, there have been a lot of threads lately!) of offering a specific explanation for your choice in this matter. What rational justification are you basing this on, if not religion or fear (or contempt, as someone else mentioned)?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #105
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    While I do not want you to say more than you feel comfortable saying, then could you please explain why you won't let your brother bring his partner to your house? Are they a-holes or something? Do they disrespect you? Or is it really just the gay thing?
    Just to clarify, Lark's brother is straight and married (if I recall correctly) and how Lark would treat his brother if his brother were gay is just a hypothetical.

    I do admit to a twinge of amusement of Lark's brother being the unknowing subject of argument, and having so many qualities assigned to him for the sake of example.

    (Do agree with Jennifer's post about the crux of the matter, though.)

  6. #106
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Just to clarify, Lark's brother is straight and married (if I recall correctly) and how Lark would treat his brother if his brother were gay is just a hypothetical.
    Lol -- see? I really have missed a lot of the discussion here, but I'm peddling madly trying to keep up!

    I do admit to a twinge of amusement of Lark's brother being the unknowing subject of argument, and having so many qualities assigned to him for the sake of example.
    "You said I was gay?? GAY??? Bro, did I deal okay when you involved me in your philosophical discussions of impotence/ED? And when you got into the argument about public incontinence, I tried hard to not take it personally when you tossed in my name hypothetically. But now you've gone too far! (Although at least you didn't suggest I was a Scientologist.)"

    yes, when I meet him, it shall be: "Oh, HI! You must be Lark's incontinent impotent Ginger explosively flatulent politically ambiguous atheist pantheist midget flippered big-nosed slightly-behind-in-school amnesiac cod-loving gay brother. IT'S SO GOOD TO MEET YOU!"

    (Do agree with Jennifer's post about the crux of the matter, though.)
    Yes, same result.

    Hypothetically, why would you hypothetically kick your hypothetically gay brother out of your hypothetical house?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #107
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    You know what would be a great way to build on this discussion? We should start a "The Homosexual stupid myth" thread, and then we can argue about the intelligence of homosexuals (pronouned homma-sex-shulls) too, this always seems to be a productive line of inquiry, like in the ESFP and INTJ stupid myth threads. Maybe I'll start it up, someone get Lex Talonis' attention for me!

  8. #108
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Hypothetically, why would you hypothetically kick your hypothetically gay brother out of your hypothetical house?
    Touché.

  9. #109
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I happen to find that POV espoused by the Church as ridiculous from a rational angle, honestly: "Being gay is okay as long as you're not gay or at least pretend to be straight."

    That is decidedly not acceptance.

    But I think the issue here is the categorization of homosexuality with acts such as murder, theft, rape, and other personal violations of other human beings against their choice and will.

    If you believe homosexuality fits in that cluster, then you could draw a comparison case -- "It's okay to feel murderous impulses, as long as you do not act on them" or "It's okay to be sexually attracted to a man as long as you and a few of your friends do not drag him into a dark alley and rape him." Thus, "it's okay to feel homosexual desire as long as you do not act on it."

    However, if you do not categorize homosexuality into the "violation of another human being" category but just consider it a preference, then of course it's going to seem a horrendous injustice to be dismissed and treated as if you were a criminal. And anyone who sunders family because of it, or shuns people because of it, if the person is in all other ways acceptable, is really not a "good" human being at all, they ARE biased and phobic.

    I think *THIS* is where the disagreement is actually occurring -- the categorization of homosexuality. It drives the rest of the conflict.



    While I do not want you to say more than you feel comfortable saying, then could you please explain why you won't let your brother bring his partner to your house? Are they a-holes or something? Do they disrespect you? Or is it really just the gay thing?

    I don't understand your behavior, and you've sort of hedged (unless I've missed it -- it's possible, there have been a lot of threads lately!) of offering a specific explanation for your choice in this matter. What rational justification are you basing this on, if not religion or fear (or contempt, as someone else mentioned)?
    Well, I dont really know the Church's position on homosexuality, it doesnt interest me, this is what I was told about it by someone who cared a long time ago.

    Both my brothers are straight, its a hypothetical question based on someone else's experience which I stated an understanding for.

    I object to homosexuality and homosexual behaviour being treated as normative, its the goal of queer theory and gay activism, it ceased to be about equality a long time ago. Simple as.

  10. #110
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    See in terms of the crux of the matter, I posted a thread about free speech its gotten hijacked with defending homosexuality, its happened a couple of times in a couple of threads. Perhaps its the fault of feeding the trolls since I dont believe that Banana cares either way about homosexuality, if he couldnt call someone homophobic he'd call them racist or something else.

    One thing I'd ask though is why there's the crying need to leap to the defence of homosexuality at every given opportunity? Is that exactly rational? Are homosexuals and gay friendly fellow travellers the last political groupsicle who cant simply live and let live and have to interrogate others until they can be sure they're thinking exactly like they are? Is that rational? Is it rational to require the support, affirmation and approval of sexual orientation and choices which has become a hall mark of politicised or cultural homosexuality?

    This is the last I'm going to say on this topic, whether it appears again or not, people have their views and I dont much care, I've stated mine. Categorically.

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