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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tater Typhoon View Post
    Well, the thing is, science does not tell us why surviving as a species is good. It may tell us that species innately foster their own growth, but it doesn't clarify why one ought not to, for instance, start a nuclear holocaust. Science is not a being that cares for one's well-being. It is a tool, just like logic, that we use for inferring knowledge.

    So, your premise that one ought to preserve one's species does not come scientifically. I think it comes metaphysically, in one sense or another. From the depths of one's subjective values.
    This is an argument that leads to an infinite regress. For if we accept that God created us, the next question is who created God, and then who was it that created the entity that created God and so on.

  2. #22
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    This is true, but still God gave the order.

    And this is an order that could only have been given by a child abusing God.

    So it is no surprise He created a child abusing Church.
    Poor Victor, he knows he's being cornered and resorts to his old tactic of changing the topic to child abuse. Doesn't matter the topic, somehow it's always connected to child abuse. Oh sure, he condemns God and his church as child abusers, but never once likes to answer the question of "why is child abuse is an accepted norm in Australia?" He denies an entire generation was neglected and abused, nah - they were given a "better life".

    Kinda reminds one of the old claim of there being no sex in the Soviet Union.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Kinda reminds one of the old claim of there being no sex in the Soviet Union.
    Of course not mate, just as there are no homosexuals in the Islamic Republic of Iran.

  4. #24
    Sniffles
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    Oh yes, when not talking about child abuse, your other pet topic is Islam.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Oh yes, when not talking about child abuse, your other pet topic is Islam.
    Yes, the three Abrahamic faiths are based on a child abusing God.

  6. #26
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    Sure they are Victor. Now how about addressing child abuse issues in your own country for once?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Sure they are Victor. Now how about addressing child abuse issues in your own country for once?
    Well, the Australian Federal Police are bringing child sexual abusers before our Criminal Courts on a regular basis.

    And the Australian Federal Police are present with us on the internet hunting child sexual abusers, not only in Australia but overseas as well.

    And our Federal Parliament has made the non reporting of child sexual abuse a crime.

    And the Catholic Church has been covering up child sexual abuse for a thousand years, but so far no Bishop, nor any Bishop of Rome, has had his day in Court.

    However today the Bishop of Rome is under threat of prosecution in Britain.

    They can run but they can't hide.

  8. #28
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tater Typhoon View Post
    Well, the thing is, science does not tell us why surviving as a species is good.
    This is as much a product of our use of the idea of "good" as the failing of science.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tater Typhoon View Post
    Science is not a being that cares for one's well-being. It is a tool, just like logic, that we use for inferring knowledge.

    So, your premise that one ought to preserve one's species does not come scientifically. I think it comes metaphysically, in one sense or another. From the depths of one's subjective values.
    And yet another terror of questioning our instincts is the thought that we may not have a magical innate reason for being better than any other species. Luckily, faith is here to make sure that we don't look too close.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  9. #29
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    When it comes right down to it, are there any principles higher than "pain is bad", "pleasure is good"?

    How may religious zealots would actually put their god before this principle?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not_Me View Post
    When it comes right down to it, are there any principles higher than "pain is bad", "pleasure is good"?
    Sure, there is moral courage and physical courage. There is curiosity. There is doing things for their own sake which leads to ecstasy or stepping outside the taken-for-granted.

    Care to step outside?

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