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  1. #41
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    Mocking Muslims in the West today is like mocking Judaism in Nazi Germany.
    I imagine this would be deeply offensive to Jews.

  2. #42
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    Mother's Apron Strings

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft View Post
    If my mother was verbally insulted in my face, I would beat the shit out of that person.
    It's interesting that some feel the same way about a book as they do about their mother.

    In therapy one learns to critique one's mother.

    And in the West we have been critiquing our book, the Bible, for one hundred and eighty years.

    However in the East the critique of the Koran has not even begun.

    I think it is time for all of us to cut our mother's apron strings.

  3. #43
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    It's interesting that some feel the same way about a book as they do about their mother.

    In therapy one learns to critique one's mother.

    And in the West we have been critiquing our book, the Bible, for one hundred and eighty years.

    However in the East the critique of the Koran has not even begun.

    I think it is time for all of us to cut our mother's apron strings.
    There's a difference between you criticizing something like your sacred text or your mother and someone else doing the same thing. You have emotional and intellectual context that the other person does not have. It is YOURS, but it is not theirs.

    Although the mother/sacred text analogy is maybe a little strange to me...
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  4. #44
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Yes (nothing personal, my grandmother was at least a moderate racist before she developed advanced dementia). And yes, if I lived in the nineteenth century, I would be anti-clerical due to what was overwhelming opposition to essential political freedoms by the Catholic church.
    I'm not offended don't worry, I just used my grandmother as the first example I could think of. :p

    But I really don't think based ont hose views that someone would class as "at leasta moderate fundamentalist Catholic" (incidentally one of my uncles, is such a thing).

    In fact I think the only reason you would class someone as a fundamentalist Catholic for holding that opinion, is to maintain a textbook definition...because there is no rooting in reality to. It's just categorization for the sake of it. A fundamentalist is a militant who wants to fight to impose thier views on society not just someone who wants to not have their religion insulted (there's quite a big difference between not wanting to see the Pope insulted and between wanting to imprison homosexuals - likewise, this same analogy applies to Muslims).

    And I am anti-clergy, including Muslim clergy. But this doesn't mean that I think the effects of Mulsim-baiting are progressive, at least in Western society where muslims are a vulnerable and often poor minority (moreso in Europe than the USA). And that's the real issue.

    I don't have to agree with those making the death threats (a miniscule minority) to realize that the whole "defend my right to insult Mohammed" brigade is highly reactionary.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  5. #45
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    I imagine this would be deeply offensive to Jews.
    You imagine wrong.
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

  6. #46
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    A fundamentalist is a militant who wants to fight to impose thier views on society not just someone who wants to not have their religion insulted (there's quite a big difference between not wanting to see the Pope insulted and between wanting to imprison homosexuals - likewise, this same analogy applies to Muslims).
    No one wants to have their beliefs insulted, but without such protections free speech is toothless and essentially non-existent. Also, most Islamic "fundamentalists" (a broad term indeed) are not militants, in the same way that most segregationist were not members of the KKK; they simply posses beliefs that are antithetical to modern liberal* society and effectively serve as an ideological incubator, de-facto support network, and recruitment pool for the violent extremists. Such culturally entrenched belief systems (i.e. illiberal* interpretations of Islam) must be challenged if any reform is to take place.

    *I know you're not a liberal universalist, I'm just explaining my position.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 04-23-2010 at 09:53 PM. Reason: more to add

  7. #47
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post

    Anyway, South Park has never singled out Muslims more than other groups (quite the opposite).
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I'm still a little lost.

    The episode I saw made fun of the Pope, and scientologists, and Jesus (who had a porn addiction and took his own name in vain numerous times as a punchline), and Buddha (who was snorting coke numerous times), and Mohammed just happened to be the convenient centerpiece of the superteam to pick because no one is allowed to say his name/show his image; it was a dramatic choice, not a "screw Muslims" choice. If I had been writing it blind, I would have probably picked that angle too.

    Or is someone saying that viewers are too ... ummm... uneducated so to speak in order to realize the difference, and so anti-Muslims will just be further incited by the episode?

    I'm not sure any comedy is safe, if that is the reasoning here.
    Indeed, perhaps insults themselves should be fair and just< Though I find this idea ironic. What is South Park's belief?

    On another note, if we were to pave the way in gaining more freedom to insult, what should be the effective way? Should we simply do it and hope that someone won't respond aggressively? Or is there another way that could possibly persuade the group enough that beliefs are not so important Or that violence is not the answer?

  8. #48
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    "Catholic fundamentalist" is an oxymoron. :rolli:

  9. #49
    I am Sofa King!!! kendoiwan's Avatar
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    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post1161526

    "They the type of cats who pollute the whole shoreline. Have it purified. Sell it for a $1.25"

  10. #50
    psicobolche tcda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    "Catholic fundamentalist" is an oxymoron. :rolli:
    Josemaria Escriv√°?
    "Of course we spent our money in the good times. That's what you're supposed to do in good times! You can't save money in the good times. Then they wouldn't be good times, they'd be 'preparation for the bad times' times."

    "Every country in the world owes money. Everyone. So heere's what I dont get: who do they all owe it to, and why don't we just kill the bastard and relax?"

    -Tommy Tiernan, Irish comedian.

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