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  1. #51
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    Currently you don't really have a choice in the matter, they're giving it to the rich guys who fucked up. Might as well let the rich guys know who fuck up, get fucked in the process. Might as well give the money to starting endevours and create some jobs, but whoops...they have too much regulation to worry about. Getting succesful is going to be much harder. How are they gonna get the capital they need to startup? Ah yes, banks...but oh hmm...people aren't saving their money there, since there isn't much to gain in it. Aw shucks. Perhaps interest rates should go up a bit. Gasp, but the fed is keeping it low! But wait, the banks have been fucking up repeatedly! They don't care, the fed comes in to save the day, get out of jail cards for everyone! ...... printing out of the mess is a perfect plan, it cannot go wrong!
    What are you saying that without regulation new competitors will materialise out of thin air and be able to usurp the position of established monopolies and oligopolies? What about the massive entry and exit costs in those markets? Wouldnt that be, as it is now, prohibitively expensive?

    The idea that the only thing preventing competition is regulation is a myth perpetuated by those most likely to win from any deregulation, if you're more comfortable with a metaphor its like a race which has already started, the new contestants are at the starting line, the existing contestants well ahead and now they've been provided with a fully fuelled motor car, who you figure tires first? Who you figure lasts the distance?

  2. #52
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    Hey I'm for limited regulation, not no regulation, or the overregulation thats here now.
    Regulation that exists now simply makes what already is comperativly hard, that much harder to do. Lets go with the race analogy, and make it a long distance one(since theres no real finish line to speak of).
    The guy sees his big competition well ahead with a big powerful fully fuelled motor car. But he sees where they've gone wrong, high fuel consumption, riding on old gear which requires high maintenance...all of which costs allot of money, plus they have 3 drivers in the car all bickering about the route, price...and who gets to drive. So the guy decides to construct a one or two seater, very light vehicle which can benefit from new underlaying technology. Maybe he put in a hybrid engine that is extremely efficient in the miles per gallon. And with it being a light car, he saves allot of costs on gasoline. He could even plug it in somewhere to charge it with electricity.
    Now the question isn't really, who is going to win....but the opinion of the guy on the sideline, and to which car he says 'I want one!'

    Monopolies, well...just have a look at Microsoft, Apple and Linux.

  3. #53
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Don't compare financial regulation to industrial regulation. Just don't.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #54
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    Did I compare it? The metaphor was about competition, not financial regulation.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantive View Post
    Did I compare it? The metaphor was about competition, not financial regulation.
    Your metaphor was an attempt to demonstrate how regulation can reduce competition. Financial regulation is central to the topic of this thread.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #56
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    Not mine, I was responding to his mention of monopolies and oligopolies. But its a poor metaphor to work with with financial regulation in mind.
    Should I ammend the metaphor to incorporate it, I'de say the race sponsor has been buying the gas for the contestant in the lead, while decreasing the budget of the guys at the starting line. But the lead car is burning so much, the race sponsor can't keep up , so it's borrowing from foreign investors in the race to pay for them. Problem is, the race doesn't end...but the contestants could. At some point the foreign investors want their money, and the profits from the race broadcasts are not nearly enough to cover the gas bills. :p

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    It seems to me, it was the lack of regulation that ran the economy out of gas.

  8. #58
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    It seems to me, it was the lack of regulation that ran the economy out of gas.
    Exactamondo!

    Anyway what is too much regulation? Who decides? Any regulation at all will be too much regulation if you're trying to cut corners or pull a scam to make a fast buck, so far as I can see its the financial sector which is insisting there's too much presently and we're supposed to expect them to be objective?

    When Hayek was writing Road To Serfdom and the like, and he's one of the arch-ideological capitalists, he was quick to say competition planning and regulation was warranted, not that he was opposed to planning per se and that's not even the speel now. Now its whatever's good for the 1% is good for the economy and is therefore good for everyone else, it works too because in countries like the US the public by choice identify more with the same 1% rich guys than they do with anyone else, particularly the folk devils like welfare mommas.

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