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  1. #11
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    It most certainly will happen again, as we now know that if your behavior is risky enough, and on a grand enough scale, the taxpayers will bail you out and the government will re-inflate the bubble you created for you.



  2. #12
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eckhart View Post
    It certainly can happen again. As no steps (laws, regulation, adjustments to our system) were taken to prevent such happenings in the future other than hoping that people will be more reasonable, it is still possible to happen. As we all know that most people won't become more reasonable and responsible, it is also very likely to happen again in some time.
    This is my thoughts exactly and I'm concerned about it.

  3. #13
    Senior Member JHBowden's Avatar
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    Obama and the progressives have promised that we'll never see an economic collapse again if we have the right regulations and spending. Change we can believe in!

    Evidently he never learned of the business cycle during his employ as a community organizer.

    Personally, I believe Say's Law is true, and a recession is just different factors in the economy readjusting to each other after falling out of alignment, since productivity growth is not uniform. Experience shows we're bound to get recessions in various forms every 7-10 years.

    Excessive government spending and regulation makes it more difficult for an economy to recalibrate-- it is like malware sucking up all of your CPU cycles, preventing the rest of your applications from running properly.
    Everyone knows that it was Roosevelt's New Deal policy that turned the depression in the United States.
    Then everyone is wrong. Unemployment never dropped below 14% during the 1930s. Roosevelt prolonged the recession by crowding out private investment with government spending, propping crop prices by paying people to destroy crops/livestock while people were starving, throwing people in jail for selling milk below the government set price, throwing people out of work with minimum wages-- Hoover/Roosevelt is a textbook lesson on what *not* to do during a recession. Hoover, if you're curious about fact, rather than progressive mythology, jacked up taxes and imposed heavy tariffs. Yet in schools good proles are taught that Hoover created the recession with laissez faire, and Roosevelt saved it with Big Government.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHBowden View Post
    Obama and the progressives have promised that we'll never see an economic collapse again if we have the right regulations and spending. Change we can believe in!

    Evidently he never learned of the business cycle during his employ as a community organizer.

    Personally, I believe Say's Law is true, and a recession is just different factors in the economy readjusting to each other after falling out of alignment, since productivity growth is not uniform. Experience shows we're bound to get recessions in various forms every 7-10 years.

    Excessive government spending and regulation makes it more difficult for an economy to recalibrate-- it is like malware sucking up all of your CPU cycles, preventing the rest of your applications from running properly.
    Which would be a recession, normal business cycles, hardly the financial crisis which was being discussed.

  5. #15
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    Lasted I'd checked, "Bubble Master" Bernanke has yet to rule out the possibility of a double dip. The current market valuation is most certainly a bubble, as is the price of oil in absense of strong demand.

    Most major urban centers are still loosing jobs. Consumer spending remains cautious. The next foreclosure wave is getting ready to roll on through. Commercial real estate remains under tremendous pressure with regard to retail and other types of vacancies.

    I suspect by Q2 the giddy economic outlook won't look so pretty. But life goes on, and people adapt...innovate and evolve. We still live in the age of the guilded Bubble Barons. That's unlikely to change, in absense of financial collapse and revolution. I suspect they'll eventually decide it's best to distract our attentions with a new war?

  6. #16
    Senior Member JHBowden's Avatar
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    Which would be a recession, normal business cycles, hardly the financial crisis which was being discussed.
    You're making a purely mental distinction.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHBowden View Post
    You're making a purely mental distinction.
    I'm not.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    Lasted I'd checked, "Bubble Master" Bernanke has yet to rule out the possibility of a double dip. The current market valuation is most certainly a bubble, as is the price of oil in absense of strong demand.

    Most major urban centers are still loosing jobs. Consumer spending remains cautious. The next foreclosure wave is getting ready to roll on through. Commercial real estate remains under tremendous pressure with regard to retail and other types of vacancies.

    I suspect by Q2 the giddy economic outlook won't look so pretty. But life goes on, and people adapt...innovate and evolve. We still live in the age of the guilded Bubble Barons. That's unlikely to change, in absense of financial collapse and revolution. I suspect they'll eventually decide it's best to distract our attentions with a new war?
    The whole bubbles and mass delusions side of current boom and bust is something that interests me, I'm not sure that the economy can keep going without those same delusions though.

    I'll be interested to see what happens if the economic reality where ever to seriously come up against the fantasies of market libertarians, I mean how does the "American dream" of home ownership stack up against the prospect of there being no loans what so ever to facilitate it?

    Now I suspect in all likelihood it'll be the fault of vaguely defined "others" again, whether its terrorists foreign and domestc or welfare moms or the like.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The whole bubbles and mass delusions side of current boom and bust is something that interests me, I'm not sure that the economy can keep going without those same delusions though.

    I'll be interested to see what happens if the economic reality where ever to seriously come up against the fantasies of market libertarians, I mean how does the "American dream" of home ownership stack up against the prospect of there being no loans what so ever to facilitate it?

    Now I suspect in all likelihood it'll be the fault of vaguely defined "others" again, whether its terrorists foreign and domestc or welfare moms or the like.
    Home Ownership is an "American Dream" that seems like irrational exhuberance under the current system. i.e. It's $235 dollars per month less expensive to rent vs. own, in the best of current markets. You have to chuck over five to eleven grand or more up front, to all kinds of people who have their hands out. Including the lender, who wants a fee of a couple of thousand just to generate a loan? That you'll end up paying them two to three times the value of the home? Are they for real?

    Then when you go to sell it in the current market? Or what if you loose your job or have a health problem? The lender gets to zap your equity in their favor? wtf?

    30 Year Mortgages made a lot of sense thirty years ago. People stayed in one place and with one job on average one heck of a lot longer. Or it was a family business or farm...being mortgaged, etc.

    Even when factoring in a 4 percent growth valuation, which isn't guaranteed...a house is almost always at best a break even proposition over time. Now, leveraging a mortgage to have someone else pay the rent? That comes with it's own set of risk, but meets the criteria of a real investment.

    Only point of the extended babble rant is to say, it seems a completely new system needs to be developed...that reflects the realities of todays working/living world.

    I'd toyed with the notion of a portable equity system, that would allow for individuals to move into a less expensive home or move up...as need be without penalty. Granted haven't exerted the mental effort to figure out something that might be workable.

  10. #20
    morose bourgeoisie
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    People are no less greedy than before, so why wouldn't it happen again?

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