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  1. #11
    Phantonym
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    Life is not fair and people are not equal. That's how it's always been and always will be. The OP mentioned Spartans. Well, the current society will most definitely be judged in the future by all the genetically engineered "perfect" people.

  2. #12
    #005645 phthalocyanine's Avatar
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    an unborn child is like a mystery prize...

    "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.."
    -Oscar Wilde



  3. #13
    lab rat extraordinaire CrystalViolet's Avatar
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    You pro-lifers certainly take a dismissive attitude towards the parents of such a child. Down's children can range from being mildly disabled to very severely retarded (and that is the right word), they can have multiple congential heart problems, a high chance of developing leukemia, not to mention a host of other health problems. They are very lucky if they live past thirty, in that case they have a very high chance of developing early onset Alzehiemer's disease (or a condition very like that). Do you want to condemn parents to live through that? Or for that matter the child itself?
    You think a desicion to abort a child, especially at about 15-16 weeks, which is when trisomy 21 can be confirmed, is fracking easy? Try walking in thier shoes. Unless things have changed, the test aren't so inconclusive...trust me I worked in a laboratory where such testing occured. Especially with scans, and nucotranslucency testing, and a varity of blood tests and aminiocentesis. They are really sure.
    There things like medical insurance, and child care costs, which would be so much more due to special considerations. I'm actually pretty sure the parents couldn't get medical insurance for the child. Are you going to help the parents with the upkeep?
    It is unfortuanate with the above case, but get off the moral high horse, and look at the real life considerations of carrying out a Down's syndrome pregnancy. It's painful choice, no matter what you chose.
    Currently submerged under an avalanche of books and paper work. I may come back up for air from time to time.
    Real life awaits and she is a demanding mistress.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #14
    Senior Member Hexis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Yeah... I didn't necessarily want to start another 50 page thread on abortion. I'm sure others such as yourself have done a far better job of defending the pro-life position than I could.

    I just thought people should be aware of this story.
    Neither do I, and thank you for sharing the story. I would only like to point out that the doctor should be frowned upon for messing up his job and not for being willing to abort a likely unhealthy child. Cause as long as freedom rules in America pro-lifers such as your self will luckily never be allowed to bar a woman from making a decision that is ONLY hers to make.




    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Why? What's so dangerous about thinking that all humans are equal because human life is inherently valuable? It's that kind of thinking that led to the abolition of slavery.
    Ugh, god i am tired of that lame excuse. All men ARE NOT MADE/BORN EQUAL. Genetics themselves disprove this irrational theory. A man or a woman born with a debilitating disease is NOT my equal clearly. And any person who would allow themselves to be enslaved is NOT my eqaul. And just cause a law may give you the same rights as me does not make you my eqaul.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    It sounds to me that you would have been up for wiping out most of the human race up to what? A hundred years ago?

    Until then most people lived their lives doing backbreaking work and suffering from innumerable ailments.
    I have no idea how you got that idea. Something that can be cured is obviously not worth disposing of someone for. But yes im all for aborting children who will very like come out majorly "wrong". They only hinder society.



    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    What does it mean to live a fulfilled life... and what does health have to do with it?

    Moreover, why is there necessarily a correlation between health and happiness?
    Health has everything to do it with it. Ask someone who has cancer, im sure they'll say their haveing a blast.

    What a stupid question.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beefeater View Post
    Happy people are those that are content with their present condition whatever it may be.
    I would not call contentment happiness. Actually saying so is completely wrong beings both describe a different situational feeling of being.
    SDMF

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It's not very rational to base the value of human life on accidental factors.
    Nonsense.

    Edit:

    I'm gonna suck babies down the drain if I feel like it, and if you attempt to stop me I'll chop you up and put you down that drain instead. Nuff said.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #16
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueGray View Post
    My first thought is that the situation seems relatively easy to abort the other baby in. I'm left wondering what are the exact chances, in order to make the decision of whether it was the doctor's fault or not.

    I'm not against abortion and don't see how aborting babies that will very likely suffer throughout life is worse.
    +1 I'm not even sure how they could selectively abort one with confidence. I guess ultrasound? But the image wouldn't exactly be clear.

    Can I be the first to say I'm positive I would abort a Down's kid if I knew about it? You can say it's eugenics all you want, since the prolifers will be screaming bloody murder anyway (lol) it's just another voice to privately disagree with and ignore.

    I know I would deal poorly with such a child and it would be negatively affected, as would the family. And that's not even mentioning the health problems, problems at school, problems being self-sufficient later in life, etc. Not a good situation for anyone involved. It's not at all a matter of the child "meeting my standards" here as we're not talking about something like low intelligence or an ugly face - this is a very severe genetic mutation with serious health and lifestyle consequences.

    It was an interesting article, but I'm surprised at your outrage, considering the many perfectly healthy babies that are aborted routinely.

    edit: the article was written by an old religious dude in the south so maybe that explains some things...
    -end of thread-

  7. #17
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    It's interesting to consider the history of infantcide in human society. i.e. Today we live in a baby obsessed society. Worry about self-esteem and acceptance.

    Where for the majority of human history, it was nothing to throw a baby over a cliff.
    Or for a woman to discard a child within the first year...

  8. #18
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    *Agrees with Randomnity, as she said everything that I was thinking, in a more organized manner at that! *
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  9. #19
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    It's not very rational to base the value of human life on accidental factors.
    LOL
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #20
    Geolectric teslashock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    "And life: since, even if no other good were the result of life, it is desirable in itself."
    --Aristotle
    QFT.

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