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  1. #181
    Senior Member Phoenix_400's Avatar
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    A black conservative's take on the NAACP (and similar organizations).
    http://biggovernment.com/arachel/201...d/#more-145090

    I love listening to Zo (search 'machosauseproduction' on youtube) and Steven Crowder. They have a great way of getting the point across with just the right amount of humor thrown in. They both do bits for PJTV now, but a lot of their old, good stuff is still on youtube.

    EDIT: Just did a lil' huntin'. If you search 'Zonation' on youtube, you'll get a lot of Zo's newer stuff too.
    "People in glass houses shouldn't use Windex when living near bird sanctuaries."- myself

    "We are never alone my friend. We are constantly in the company of victories, losses, strengths and weaknesses. Make no mistake, life is war...and war is hell. Those who fight the hardest will suffer the most...but that's what you have to do: Fight. As long as you're feeling pain, then there's hope...because only the dead do not suffer." -RD Metcalf
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  2. #182
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    That all definitely seems true, especially as the movement has rapidly grown and popularized. But it also seems strange that people would be afraid of the ideals of a movement that can't agree on its own ideals.
    Well, here are a few thoughts...

    Stripping back the government to a very tiny, nearly minarchist state, at least in regards to the business/finances/commerce, seems to be the main thread that unifies tea party members. That's consistent.

    The other thing of course, is as I pointed out about emergent social movements competing, eventually someone will win the lengthy competition, and there will be some degree of unification (if this whole thing keeps up that long).

    And with that in mind, the sheer amount of agitation that's coming from these crowds, the anger they clearly have, would be disturbing behind any insurgent movement, regardless of the ideal. It's even disturbing right now, in its scattered state.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #183
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Well, here are a few thoughts...

    Stripping back the government to a very tiny, nearly minarchist state, at least in regards to the business/finances/commerce, seems to be the main thread that unifies tea party members. That's consistent.

    The other thing of course, is as I pointed out about emergent social movements competing, eventually someone will win the lengthy competition, and there will be some degree of unification (if this whole thing keeps up that long).

    And with that in mind, the sheer amount of agitation that's coming from these crowds, the anger they clearly have, would be disturbing behind any insurgent movement, regardless of the ideal. It's even disturbing right now, in its scattered state.
    Some of the anti-war protest leaders were just as angry and bent out of shape. Were you disturbed by them? How about the anti-globalization crew in the late-1990s/early-2000s? They were angry as hell, but most people laughed at them.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #184
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Dude, if you want to be disturbed by home grown movements, be disturbed by the guys who lure out police officers and kill them because they don't like the government. The Tea Party is small beans.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #185
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Dude, if you want to be disturbed by home grown movements, be disturbed by the guys who lure out police officers and kill them because they don't like the government. The Tea Party is small beans.
    Those people are so scattered as to be incidental in their influence. Their actions are also so flatly unacceptable to the norms of society that they can't get a whole lot of public leverage.

    The tea party concerns what is actually a growing and fairly common trend of thought that can affect policy on a large scale.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #186
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    The tea party concerns what is actually a growing and fairly common trend of thought that can affect policy on a large scale.
    Yeah, democratic elections and petitioning the government for redress of grievances can really upset the government apple cart from time to time. Did you ever stop to think that people like you disturb the hell out of Tea Partiers, and that isn't necessarily illegitimate?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #187
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    Yeah, democratic elections and petitioning the government for redress of grievances can really upset the government apple cart from time to time. Did you ever stop to think that people like you disturb the hell out of Tea Partiers, and that isn't necessarily illegitimate?
    I'm all for democracy. That doesn't mean I can't simultaneously recognize that it would suck if these people got what they wanted. Who participates in democracy but has no convictions, and what use are those people?

    Also, what really rubs me the wrong way is that I get this sense that if the democratic system isn't tilted their way, they'll throw a tantrum over it, potentially a destructive, violent one.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  8. #188
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I'm all for democracy. That doesn't mean I can't simultaneously recognize that it would suck if these people got what they wanted. Who participates in democracy but has no convictions, and what use are those people?
    And they feel that it would suck if you go what you wanted, so you're even. You don't have any high ground on the issue.

    As to your question, plenty of people vote without conviction. I know people that vote EVERY election and base their decisions on what their spouse thinks, newspaper endorsements, their "feeling" about the candidate from seeing a debate or speech. Such is life. Even worse, others only have self-interest (perceived self-interest, usually) as motivation. What use are they? I have no idea. Democratic elections aren't about "use."


    Also, what really rubs me the wrong way is that I get this sense that if the democratic system isn't tilted their way, they'll throw a tantrum over it, potentially a destructive, violent one.
    How do they want the system "tilted?" It looks to me that they just want to win elections/influence policy. And I will repeat, were the anti-war and anti-globalization protests also "tantrums?"
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  9. #189
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    And they feel that it would suck if you go what you wanted, so you're even. You don't have any high ground on the issue.
    We keep spinning over this same point in this thread, don't we? Namely, that they merely have a negative opinion of what I want, as I do of them, does not make all things equal. I hate to Godwin this thread, but it seems like the only way to get the point across. There's me, and there's a Nazi. I don't want him to get what he wants, and he doesn't want me to get what I want. So do neither of us have the high ground?

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    As to your question, plenty of people vote without conviction. I know people that vote EVERY election and base their decisions on what their spouse thinks, newspaper endorsements, their "feeling" about the candidate from seeing a debate or speech. Such is life. Even worse, others only have self-interest (perceived self-interest, usually) as motivation. What use are they? I have no idea. Democratic elections aren't about "use."
    The most imporant point is that I don't intend to be one of those voters. So again, I want a democracy, but I also have a very strong idea of who I want direction I want the country to take.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    How do they want the system "tilted?" It looks to me that they just want to win elections/influence policy. And I will repeat, were the anti-war and anti-globalization protests also "tantrums?"
    But I tilt I just mean winning the normal way. Voting, affecting things with their votes, so that the candidates they want are elected and policies they want are put in place.

    So, I'm saying that if it doesn't turn out that they are a powerful enough force to "win" the elections, I think they aren't going to tolerate that.

    As for the anti-war people, 20/20 hindsight says apparently they weren't, because we're still technically involved and they've gotten quieter rather than louder. I think another thing that was a bit safer about that is that it was very single issue. They were pressing for one change, and actually not a hard one to make. The tea party and friends are pushing for a more broad, ideological turn around... and practically a systematic deconstruction of the government. It is, in other words, a considerably harder demand to meet, one that would have much bigger impact if met, and as such likely also belies a greater amount of zeal (that's not given, but I find a corelation there).
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  10. #190
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    We keep spinning over this same point in this thread, don't we? Namely, that they merely have a negative opinion of what I want, as I do of them, does not make all things equal. I hate to Godwin this thread, but it seems like the only way to get the point across. There's me, and there's a Nazi. I don't want him to get what he wants, and he doesn't want me to get what I want. So do neither of us have the high ground?
    With a Nazi, you'd have an argument for the high ground. With the vast majority of Tea Partiers, you would not.


    The most imporant point is that I don't intend to be one of those voters. So again, I want a democracy, but I also have a very strong idea of who I want direction I want the country to take.
    And that is fine, but your disdain for the PRINCIPLES of these people is bleeding into a unfounded fear at what they might do.


    But I tilt I just mean winning the normal way. Voting, affecting things with their votes, so that the candidates they want are elected and policies they want are put in place.

    So, I'm saying that if it doesn't turn out that they are a powerful enough force to "win" the elections, I think they aren't going to tolerate that.
    And do what, exactly? Go Weather Underground on everyone in Washington?


    As for the anti-war people, 20/20 hindsight says apparently they weren't, because we're still technically involved and they've gotten quieter rather than louder. I think another thing that was a bit safer about that is that it was very single issue. They were pressing for one change, and actually not a hard one to make. The tea party and friends are pushing for a more broad, ideological turn around... and practically a systematic deconstruction of the government. It is, in other words, a considerably harder demand to meet, one that would have much bigger impact if met, and as such likely also belies a greater amount of zeal (that's not given, but I find a corelation there).
    But NOT a greater amount of derangement. The median Tea Partier is wealthier and better-educated than the median American. There has been almost no violence at their rallies. So, what is the basis for your assertion?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

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