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  1. #51
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Lets just say it like this: Poland has had very close ties to the United States for a very long time, and K. doesn't exactly love Russia, okay? As far as I recall, he even rejected an invitation from Russia (!) but I have to look into that a bit further because I'm not 100% sure.

    Anyway, to give you guys a bit more perspective, here were the people on board:

    Those killed included the President of Poland Lech Kaczyński and his wife; the Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces and other senior military officers; the President of the National Bank; the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs; government officers, vice-speakers and members of parliament; and senior members of clergy.[5]
    Source: Wikipedia

    That's an interesting combination of people, isn't it? (Just saying).

  2. #52
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Eek! I am certainly not well-informed on Polish or even European politics, but just a simple comparison to how it would be if it happened to us is scary. Our Secret Service is pretty paranoid about security, but something like this could happen to us at a presidential inauguration or event like that if we had a major terrorist attack. It could be chaotic and destabilizing at the very least.

    It's my understanding that the old Soviet Union kept their thumb on Poland in an unpleasant manner during the cold war years, so it is understandable that there would be some less than pleasant relations between the two countries. Assuming I'm not confused.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #53
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Maybe I was expecting too much from people to read into this without explaining the background. I wonder how much they all know about K. and his politics?
    I know a fair bit, which is the reason I have to deliberately restrain my suspicions regarding the Russian regime in this instance; it looks bad, but there is simply no evidence to suggest foul play, and allowing unsubstantiated accusations of such nature to be put worth without challenge tends to have very negative consequences in the long-run, which is why I always speak out against conspiracy theories.

  4. #54
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    I've now read some information, concerning this event and i've concluded that it is because of a stupid inexperienced pilot who was unable to responsibly consider his own crew's safety and follow reasonable landing protocol. While some might find this unreasonable and not feasible, i am convinced of this, because there are a great many such cases in the world which have been well documented, especially related to bad weather

    It's usually an inexperienced, semi-competent pilot given rein's, who is unable to handle the situation properly, makes a marginal error, which results in catastrophe, and not only for the passengers but for his company's reputation and the reputation of flying. The fact that he refused to land in a more safer location when advised to do so, where the airplane landing could be accomodated, is evidence of either incompetence, mental dissonance, or gambling bravado. But then we should not only put the blame on the pilot, but also the stupid jackasses who've likely lost their job for comissioning him with the presidents airflight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Lets just say it like this: Poland has had very close ties to the United States for a very long time, and K. doesn't exactly love Russia, okay? As far as I recall, he even rejected an invitation from Russia (!) but I have to look into that a bit further because I'm not 100% sure.

    Anyway, to give you guys a bit more perspective, here were the people on board:



    Source: Wikipedia

    That's an interesting combination of people, isn't it? (Just saying).
    It's not really poor precaution's. It's really a reasonable assumption. Not everyone want's to destroy the presidente just because he head of state of poland and has some neglible relationships with other countries. I doubt the russians or anyone would want his head, or could do so from flight without obviously compromising themselves. I highly doubt that there was any dirty business behind this incident. Unless the pilot himself was a suicidal proxy or someone had sabotaged the plane internally without the crew noticing. But even then... would the russians really want to risk having their ass hanged on a rack internationally, just so they can get rid of a guy who doesn't like them?. I don't think that's how the russians like to operate, but it's a possibility. But again, since the russian's have already claimed every right to the authority in the matter, i think we will never be certain if there was any kind of foul play at hand.
    Last edited by ColonelGadaafi; 04-15-2010 at 02:54 AM.

  5. #55
    Striving for balance Little Linguist's Avatar
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    Listen, I'm not saying there was necessarily any foul play involved, even though K. was an....interesting guy....in many ways. I'm saying it's stupid to put all your eggs in one basket, even a safe basket with a very safe person to carry it. All the carrier has to do is step on a banana peel, and whooosh, there go your pretty eggs. Of course, if someone does happen to have a magnum and shoot the basket and make it look like the dude was stupid for falling on a banana peel, that's really unlikely, isn't it? But even then, the safest dude ain't gonna save the basket.

    Which is why it's stupid to put all your eggs in one basket, one way or the other, now, isn't it?

    Oh, and that also begs the question, why the hell was an inexperienced pilot at the helm of an airplane with nearly 100 VERY IMPORTANT PEOPLE??? DUH???!!!!!

    I'd like to venture a guess that Joe Schmoe definitely wouldn't have been allowed to pilot Air Force One, now, would he?

  6. #56
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    I guess this'll open the floodgate for more Polish Guy jokes?
    I am an ENTJ. I hate political correctness but love smart people ^_^

  7. #57
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    Listen, I'm not saying there was necessarily any foul play involved, even though K. was an....interesting guy....in many ways. I'm saying it's stupid to put all your eggs in one basket, even a safe basket with a very safe person to carry it. All the carrier has to do is step on a banana peel, and whooosh, there go your pretty eggs. Of course, if someone does happen to have a magnum and shoot the basket and make it look like the dude was stupid for falling on a banana peel, that's really unlikely, isn't it? But even then, the safest dude ain't gonna save the basket.

    Which is why it's stupid to put all your eggs in one basket, one way or the other, now, isn't it?

    Oh, and that also begs the question, why the hell was an inexperienced pilot at the helm of an airplane with nearly 100 VERY IMPORTANT PEOPLE??? DUH???!!!!!

    I'd like to venture a guess that Joe Schmoe definitely wouldn't have been allowed to pilot Air Force One, now, would he?
    Yes, you do have a point. The organizers should ideally have considered the VIP passengers safety a top priority and likely taken more effort to make it all a safter journey. A smarter option would be to travel by train or car.

    But LL@ you also have to consider these point's

    1. There was no technical problems with the plane that were directly visible, the previous operators had guranteed it's operational suitability.
    2. Transporting the president and all his retaineers is not a cheap thing really, so it was considered from a econimical perspective.
    3. Poland has had no previous experience with significant airplane crashes.
    4. The field trip was only a 2 hours flight.
    5. Everything really was in order save for the First pilot and the weather which people do not place a empathsis on.

    So far from what we know is that the pilot caused the crash, and it is the flight commissioners fault for assigning an incompetent idiot. Of course, but not everyone thought they would crash and burn did they?.

  8. #58
    Sniffles
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    I'm not bothering with this thread.

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