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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by valentine View Post
    It does not make it right, but it is effectively the same thing. Cruelty is cruelty, and I can not think of too many things worse than killing something.
    An apex predator killing its prey for food is not cruel.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    I get the distinct feeling that the motivation for posting this, is in order to make some point about "over-sensitive minorities" using the "racism" excuse to commit acts of violence, as if this were some widespread problem: when in fact it's just another case out of millions a guy losing it with an animal.
    You forgot the standard references to petit bourgeoise ideology, which of course is mere cover for capitalistic imperialism that oppresses the international lumpenproletariat. Comrade Lenin is disappoined in you.

  3. #73
    Senior Member valentine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Some Guy View Post
    An apex predator killing its prey for food is not cruel.
    When that killing is completely unnecessary for survival what is it called then?

  4. #74
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    Yeah, I don't understand why people put domesticated animals on such a pedestal. We're devastated over a news report on pet cruelty but call the Hindu "exotic" or "strange" because they won't touch our beloved quarter pounder.

    It reminds me of the controversy surrounding Michael Vick. I remember growing up in my neighborhood the boys around the block would raise dogs to fight each other. I never understood then why they'd want to do something like that (nor do I really now), but I also remember not being too terribly appalled by it. I think it has a lot to do with upbringing, cultural influence, etc although that is in no way justification for mistreating animals of any kind, pets or not. Further, my point is despite the fact that I adore animals, always have, and volunteer at and donate to the Humane Shelter as often as I can, I don't as Ragingsatsuki said understand putting pets at a higher priority than human beings.

    Also, I may just be being a jerk here, but I always thought it was a little narcissistic to love something that is entirely dependent on you and loves you as its "master."* Don't hurt me.

    *of course that's not why all people love their pets/have pets - duh, got it.
    +100000. I agree with each and every word of your post.

    I always get weirded out about the animal dependency thing. Of course it "loves" you, you feed it and pick up its shit. And you keep it locked up. It's a no-brainer.

    And I could never figure out why some animals are more protected than others. Very inconsistent, and it bugs me.

    As far as the dog-slasher goes, it seemed a bit excessive but I wasn't there and don't know the whole story. On the surface, it seems cruel - you can't blame a dog for being a dog. I guess a jury will decide once presented with all the facts.

    But as for me, if I felt my life was in danger or my safety was threatened, I would attack viciously and violently - not giving a damn if it was a man or a giraffe.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    You forgot the standard references to petit bourgeoise ideology, which of course is mere cover for capitalistic imperialism that oppresses the international lumpenproletariat. Comrade Lenin is disappoined in you.
    The price of tea in Beijing is 10 yuan.

    Nice way not to address anything he actually said.

    Quote Originally Posted by valentine View Post
    When that killing is completely unnecessary for survival what is it called then?
    You mean if I shoot a deer but don't eat it or use its hide for clothing?

    In that case, it would be cruel and wasteful. But there are very few hunters who do not eat their kill, or otherwise use it for consumption.

    If you are under the delusion everyone should just buy soy at Whole Foods, then that is a different matter entirely.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Some Guy View Post
    The price of tea in Beijing is 10 yuan.
    That's nice - too bad for you I don't care.

  7. #77
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    That's nice - too bad for you I don't care.
    You could stop being evasive and actually address why you started the thread in the first place. Erase tcda's suspicions and mine, if you can.

  8. #78
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    Oh but it's so fun to keep you guys guessing. Why oh why does Peguy post the stuff he does? - One of life's greatest mysteries no?

  9. #79
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tcda View Post
    There are acts of violence against animals every day - including legalized hunting FFS! Why not post every time someone shoots a deer?

    I get the distinct feeling that the motivation for posting this, is in order to make some point about "over-sensitive minorities" using the "racism" excuse to commit acts of violence, as if this were some widespread problem: when in fact it's just another case out of millions a guy losing it with an animal.

    Which doesn't make it ok but doesn't make it newsworthy either.
    Totally agree.

    Of course I have to go do some researching.

    Anyone can type "racist dogs" "can animals be racist" "canine hostility and race" into google and you'll find these articles.

    This is an article from Slate.
    Dogs can be trained to discriminate. Some Jamaican resorts feature dogs that chase blacks off the beach while leaving white frat boys to fry like bacon. South Africa's apartheid government bred "Boerbuls" by crossing Rottweilers, Dobermans, bloodhounds, German shepherds, and even wolves to create very aggressive dogs for its security services. In the 1980s, the Herstigte Nasionale Party advertised such animals as "racist watchdogs" created "especially for South African circumstances." In his 1982 film White Dog, director Sam Fuller explores the socialization of racism by having a black man attempt to retrain a dog taught to kill blacks—a so-called white dog—only to have the dog attack whites instead. Paramount found the film disturbing enough to block its release for more than a decade.

    Barring human intent, however, what turns an otherwise sweet dog like Percy into a bigot? Typically, such behavior indicates that the dog was not exposed to the people it now targets during its developmentally "sensitive time"—weeks 3 through 12—when its understanding of the world was formed. "If you take a dog who has never encountered a black man, or someone who has a funny walk, who uses a walker, or has a gimp or a limp, and he sees the first one in his life when he's six months old. … it's going to be a shock," says Dodman. "He's going to think 'Jinx! That's pretty strange! What the heck is that!' They might hide—that's the more fearful type of dog. But if they're a little bit macho"—known in the trade as "fear aggressive"—"they might try and go for it, to try and drive it away. And it's because they're unfamiliar."

    But even if unfamiliarity breeds contempt, how does this explain Percy? Whatever the circumstances of his early life, being abandoned in Fort Greene indicated that he was, if not raised by, at least exposed to people of color. In such a case, a dog probably has had a bad experience at the hands (or feet) of those it doesn't like. This does not necessarily incriminate Percy's previous owner. In The Dog Who Loved Too Much, Dodman profiles a dog who developed a mysterious hatred of white-bearded men late in life. Eventually Dodman determined that the owner's white-bearded ex-boyfriend, left alone with the dog just once, was the likely culprit. "A dog's memory is like a photographic plate," Dodman says, "whatever happened, it just took a snapshot of that person and logged it in its long-term memory as 'bad'." (In the same vein, dogs can develop an aversion to certain breeds, sizes, and colors of other dogs.) Extreme trauma can even cause a dog to exhibit the symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder...

    Apprehension on the human's side and ignorance on the dog's can lead to a didactic encounter that reinforces prejudice and fear on both sides. The personality of the owner can make matters even worse. Dodman recently completed a large study of the personality profiles of owners whose dogs are fear aggressive and—no surprise—the owners tend to be somewhat fearful and awkward themselves. "If you are nervous around people, the lead becomes a telephone line going straight to the dog," he says. "As you tense up on the lead, the dog will pick up on the tension. He might glance at you and see the expression on your face and then he is keyed and ready to go. Cocked and loaded."

    Add race to the equation, and the potential for ugliness deepens. If a white owner is apprehensive about say, blacks, the dog could manifest that apprehension, which could encourage blacks who encounter that aggressive canine to fear dogs and dislike their white owners. Even owners like my friends, who I'll posit didn't come into the situation with prejudice, now find themselves tightening the leash or crossing the street when they see someone Percy is prone to bark at coming their way. And while they do this to avoid a bad situation, it could reinforce the very qualities they wish their dog didn't possess.
    This is from The Straight Dope.

    This is an article from the Telegraph which is a English paper.
    There is anecdotal evidence of dogs in South Africa growling and threatening black people while ignoring whites. This will be put to the test in the dog unit. In the video of the attack, which occurred in 1998, the officers jokingly described the tape as a training video.

    Karen McKenzie, director of the Independent Complaints Directorate, said: "The possibility could exist that there were other sessions and that blacks were used as live bait. If that turned out to be true, the dogs would have to be put down. The psychological state of the dog is critical to our investigation."
    Belgium's Canine Bigot: Nigerian Job Seeker Spurned Due to 'Racist Dog' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
    Waylon Lewis: Is Larry David Right? Can Dogs be "Racist"? This is a Job for Cesar Millan
    In the Huffington Post article is an interesting clip from Ceasar Milan trying to train a dog not to attack the owner's son. The dog hates the son for some reason.

    I don't think it's far-fetched at all to say the dog may have been trained to dislike people of color or picked it up from the owner or past owners. As far as I'm concerned the man wasn't necessarily imagining the dog antagonizing him and other people of color, but not whites.

    Cutting out the dog's eye was extreme. If he reported the dog attacking him to the police, spoke with the owner about the dog's behavior and was ignored I can see a situation in which his frustration grows at not being believed that an animal is antagonizing him and he flipped out.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  10. #80
    Nickle Iron Silicone Charmed Justice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptunesnet View Post
    Yeah, I don't understand why people put domesticated pets on such a pedestal. We're devastated over a news report on pet cruelty but call the Hindu "exotic" or "strange" because they won't touch our beloved quarter pounder.

    It reminds me of the controversy surrounding Michael Vick. I remember growing up in my neighborhood the boys around the block would raise dogs to fight each other. I never understood then why they'd want to do something like that (nor do I really now), but I also remember not being too terribly appalled by it. I think it has a lot to do with upbringing, cultural influence, etc although that is in no way justification for mistreating animals of any kind, pets or not. Further, my point is despite the fact that I adore animals, always have, and volunteer at and donate to the Humane Shelter as often as I can, I don't as Raginigsatsuki said understand putting pets at a higher priority than human beings.

    Also, I may just be being a jerk here, but I always thought it was a little narcissistic to love something that is entirely dependent on you and loves you as its "master."* Don't hurt me.

    *of course that's not why all people love their pets/have pets - duh, got it.
    Agree with everything you said here, especially the bolded.
    There is a thinking stuff from which all things are made, and which, in its original state, permeates, penetrates, and fills the interspaces of the universe.

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