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  1. #131
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spamtar View Post
    Or the option of posting a funny picture...lets not forget this fall-back. Part of the restitution should be getting the dog its own parrot and a pirate hat.
    True, although you need to resize that pic.

  2. #132
    half mystic, half skeksis jenocyde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatever View Post
    I really think that calling a person who would attack a chained dog a "man" is stretching things a bit far... mutilating animals for barking, no matter for what reason, is just fucked up
    Maybe he meant to kill, like he had promised, and not mutilate.

    You can't expect someone to be rational at every single moment of their lives. I went to a prison once to visit someone and I was terrified for my life that the men who were howling at me were going to break free and get me. I know it's irrational, but fear is just that - irrational.

    The guy overreacted. But we don't know how severe the torment was, how long it lasted and if it was deliberate. We have no idea if he was dismissed and laughed at each time he jumped when the dog barked. And we know (from his account, granted) that the dog had attacked him once before already.

    I'm not defending his actions, but I can understand the sort of mentality that led up to this behavior, assuming all the facts in the story have been correct so far.

  3. #133
    not to be trusted miss fortune's Avatar
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    I just can't go with the idea that being barked at is grounds for attack... Its only an animal, and they aren't that bright... I've yelled at dog owners for not controlling their animals before, but I've never taken it out on the dog, no matter how much they barked, growled, tormented my dog or shat on my patio (and I'll be quite vicious to the owners if necissary as well )
    “Oh, we're always alright. You remember that. We happen to other people.” -Terry Pratchett

  4. #134
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    That dog had it comin to him and you all know it. Owens is a hero.

  5. #135
    morose bourgeoisie
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    The dog lived, people.

    The slasher needs therapy. Probably a lot of it, to overcome the systemic racism that has plagued people of color for centuries. I will not judge him for this...
    And get him a job at the ASPCA. He needs a job, and it would do him good to dispel his anger.
    I love animals, and don't abide cruelty to them, but it seems that the guy was in a fit of rage, possibly dissociated from reality, at least temporarily.

    But there is no way to tell based on this brief article.

  6. #136
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurel View Post
    I think you are missing that I wouldn't want someone unbalanced enough to think like this around my children, either. Do children count as humans and get rights too? I am not talking about in this instance (since I don't know), but many people who commit animal cruelty harm animals BECAUSE they feel pain. No point in harming a computer because they don't get to see the blood fall or the computer cower from them.
    Makes no difference, i was giving a commentery on the value of it's usefullnes and functionality, and if you want to consider it imbalanced, then that's you're opinion. It is how we view animals in my culture, we have no such thing as "petting" value.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurel View Post
    I don't think people are animals, I don't think animals are equal to people. I think someone who harms animals probably has issues with violence that isn't just going to manifest itself as "animal violence."
    Now that you mention it, i did kick a hedgehog bloody like a fotball when it curled up due to reacting to my presence, it rolled for like 10meters. I remember whenever i would put pressure on it's round quail fledged form, it would snarl like the tough little bastard it was. But then again, i was 9 years old at the time and not fully realizing what i was doing, and kind of bored.

    (edited)
    Quote Originally Posted by TSIB View Post
    First of all, the "idiot" should undergo psychological evaluation. Sure, I get it, life is hard at the moment, there could be a number of reasons that caused him stress, so that he got so annoyed about the dog to direct his own anger towards an animal that seemingly "hates" him. That's the whole point of the matter, the dog wasn't probably even the cause, her behaviour only worsened his previous condition and added to the stress. Threatening to kill the dog for barking? Ok, yeah, eeeverything is fine in that head of yours, man.

    It's still inconclusory what lead the dog to bite him a year ago. But, let's say that the dog did bite him just because he happened to be around. The dog is bad, her owner is worse, for not dealing with her as the signs were all there. The dog would have caused trouble sooner or later.

    But still, this time the slashing was unprovoked. Instead of dealing with himself, his anger and with the dog in a proper way, he decided to plan ahead and go through with something so stupid and cruel.

    He will probably not be jailed and instead, as you said, medical bills, yada, yada because that's the way things go.?
    The dog was causing him distress correct?. Wether or not you want to admit it, removing the dog would have alleviated this state of being transgressed, there was likely no other option. You have to ask the question of why he would not just resign from his workplace?, the answer is likely because there are no other jobs available, or the fact that he would not be eligible in that case. It would be naive to assume that he did not confront his boss earlier, and proposed some form of solution or demanded that the dog be removed, and considering his position, he is at a great disadvantage in doing so. The boss could easily just reject any proposition or demand from his workers, after all, he could just be fired and replaced by a pool of eager workers, who would find even find the shittiest low-skill jobs to be attractive, it's a year of financial turmoil, so most unemployed grab what they can get.

    Considering that it was torturing him for months, he could've just exploded and did whatever he could to relieve himself and take out his bottled up frustration. A crime of the "heat in the moment" nature. I highly doubt he planned this deliberately, why else would he then get caught in such a blatant fashion?.



    Quote Originally Posted by TSIB View Post
    So, am I getting this right? You say that dogs lack consciousness? How can they transgress anything? Doesn't that involve consciousness?
    No, it involves instinct and instinctive memory.


    Quote Originally Posted by TSIB View Post
    Don't animals have the right to live and the right for care and protection? These are exactly among the the same rights humans have. Sure, domesticated animals are human property, always have been, always will be. But, as with any other property, humans have the responsibility to take care of their property. In this case, the humans neglected the dog.
    Humans have no obligation to animals whatsoever. If we had other systems of conceiving energy, proteins, and vitamins, our greatest reason for animal husbandry and domestication of animal's would cease to exist. Our disposition towards animals is chiefly concerned with their functionality, as a part of the Eco-system, as well human production and to a lesser degree for idiotic reasons concerned with affection, companionship.
    Last edited by ColonelGadaafi; 04-10-2010 at 09:30 AM.

  7. #137
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    1. What culture?

    2. This happened in America.

  8. #138
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Default Warning: thread "derail"

    Quote Originally Posted by jenocyde View Post
    There is an element to love that is narcissistic, yes. But how do you know that your pet loves you?
    So, like conversations with you tends to do, the thoughts you've piqued in me has been ruminating in my brain and free time.

    Can animals love, like we understand love? Or, are they only looking upon us as their "master", because they are completely dependent upon us? Can love not form through such a dynamic? How can we know?

    Is it so far-fetched to think that animals cannot "love", nor understand such an abstract concept of "love" like we can?

    A lot of observational studies, on elephants especially (they're matriarchal herds) have shown that elephants not only love their own family members, like we do, but, they understand the concept of death..........and, mourning.

    I, myself, believe that animals have the capacity for emotions, such as love.

    As for pets, well, I guess the only way to truly know (without inferring) if the "pet" loves the owner(s) would be when the owner(s) stop being its master, set the pet free...does it come back, out of its own free volition? Out of love?

    I believe the opposite of narcissistic love is sacrificial love, when you set that (object of) love free, despite your own desires.

    That cliched saying, "If you love something, set it free, if it comes back, it's yours." or something....

    It reminded me of a documentary I once saw, of Christian the Lion.

    Here's a little summary clip I found of the story (ignore the added cheesy effects to ze video):
    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btuxO-C2IzE]Christian, the Lion[/youtube]

    *****
    I also wanted to add this "off-topic" post, as a general response to those on this thread, whose sentiments run the gamut of, "who cares, it's just an animal."

    There's more to other animals that our ignorance has yet to understand. Cheers!

    - from an animal of the homo sapien kind

  9. #139
    Senior Member ColonelGadaafi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    So, like conversations with you tends to do, the thoughts you've piqued in me has been ruminating in my brain and free time.

    Can animals love, like we understand love? Or, are they only looking upon us as their "master", because they are completely dependent upon us? Can love not form through such a dynamic? How can we know?

    Is it so far-fetched to think that animals cannot "love", nor understand such an abstract concept of "love" like we can?

    A lot of observational studies, on elephants especially (they're matriarchal herds) have shown that elephants not only love their own family members, like we do, but, they understand the concept of death..........and, mourning.

    I, myself, believe that animals have the capacity for emotions, such as love.

    As for pets, well, I guess the only way to truly know (without inferring) if the "pet" loves the owner(s) would be when the owner(s) stop being its master, set the pet free...does it come back, out of its own free volition? Out of love?

    I believe the opposite of narcissistic love is sacrificial love, when you set that (object of) love free, despite your own desires.

    That cliched saying, "If you love something, set it free, if it comes back, it's yours." or something....

    It reminded me of a documentary I once saw, of Christian the Lion.

    Here's a little summary clip I found of the story (ignore the added cheesy effects to ze video):
    [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btuxO-C2IzE]Christian, the Lion[/youtube]

    *****
    I also wanted to add this "off-topic" post, as a general response to those on this thread, whose sentiments run the gamut of, "who cares, it's just an animal."

    There's more to other animals that our ignorance has yet to understand. Cheers!

    - from an animal of the homo sapien kind
    Wow you base you're entire conclusion on a single isolated incident, likely the result of conditioning through rigorous training. :9. My BPI was just lowered by reading you're post.

  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post
    The dog was causing him distress correct?. Wether or not you want to admit it, removing the dog would have alleviated this state of being transgressed, there was likely no other option. You have to ask the question of why he would not just resign from his workplace?, the answer is likely because there are no other jobs available, or the fact that he would not be eligible in that case. It would be naive to assume that he did not have confront his boss earlier, and proposed some form of solution or demanded that the dog be removed, and considering his position, he is at a great disadvantage in doing so. The boss could easily just reject any proposition or demand from his workers, after all, he could just be fired and replaced by a pool of eager workers, who would find even find the shittiest low-skill jobs to be attractive, it's a year of financial turmoil, so most unemployed grab what they can get.

    Considering that it was torturing him for months, he could've just exploded and did whatever he could to relieve himself and take out his bottled up frustration. A crime of the "heat in the moment" nature. I highly doubt he planned this deliberately, why else would he then get caught in such a blatant fashion?.
    Yes, I do agree with you that removing the dog would have made things somewhat different for him. But for how long? Until he found some other thing that was causing him distress? In my opinion, there must have other underlying reasons for his frustration.

    I do understand that for him quitting might not have been an option and all sorts of wrongs might have been committed against him. Still, this does not justify his actions.

    There probably wasn't any deliberate long-term planning. However, carrying a knife and then taunting the dog to gain courage to slash her with the intent of getting rid of the dog once and for all still involves a long term harbouring of anger directed at an animal who cannot know better than to bark at people.

    There is always a way to relieve tension and, in my opinion, he found a bad solution. And now he's out of a job as well. Nobody wins. Has he gotten rid of his frustration? I don't think so.

    Ok, this is all pure speculation and it's pointless to go on with this.

    Humans have no obligation to animals whatsoever. If we had other systems of conceiving energy, proteins, and vitamins, our greatest reason for animal husbandry and domestication of animal's would cease to exist. Our disposition towards animals is chiefly concerned with their functionality, as a part of the Eco-system, as well human production and to a lesser degree for idiotic reasons concerned with affection, companionship.
    How about mere obligation to remain humane? No matter how much of their functionality or affection is involved. If you take on a responsibility, you better be responsible for it til the end. If you have no intention of being responsible about things, how about just not getting involved with them? It's that simple.

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