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  2. #2
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Great article!

    I especially liked this part:
    I also never learned that there are smart people who aren’t “smart.” The existence of multiple forms of intelligence has become a commonplace, but however much elite universities like to sprinkle their incoming classes with a few actors or violinists, they select for and develop one form of intelligence: the analytic. While this is broadly true of all universities, elite schools, precisely because their students (and faculty, and administrators) possess this one form of intelligence to such a high degree, are more apt to ignore the value of others. One naturally prizes what one most possesses and what most makes for one’s advantages. But social intelligence and emotional intelligence and creative ability, to name just three other forms, are not distributed preferentially among the educational elite. The “best” are the brightest only in one narrow sense. One needs to wander away from the educational elite to begin to discover this...

    Some people are smart in the elite-college way, some are smart in other ways, and some aren’t smart at all. It should be embarrassing not to know how to talk to any of them, if only because talking to people is the only real way of knowing them. Elite institutions are supposed to provide a humanistic education, but the first principle of humanism is Terence’s: “nothing human is alien to me.” The first disadvantage of an elite education is how very much of the human it alienates you from.
    I find similar attitudes here.

    Now, I'm going to continue figuring out if a Phd or EdD will net me more lifetime income.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  3. #3
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    How do you measure other forms of intelligence?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #4
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    I attended a super-elite university. In my experience, almost all the students there were smart in the university sense and many were smart in a more generally knowledgeable/worldly way, but smart as to life decisions? No more or less than the general population.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #5
    Senior Member Lightyear's Avatar
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    Such an interesting, thought-provoking article. While reading it I was thinking that the elite universities try to transform their students into an army of ESTJs, nothing against ESTJs per se, but their characteristics seem to be the preferred outcome of an elite education.

  6. #6
    Plumage and Moult proteanmix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightyear View Post
    Such an interesting, thought-provoking article. While reading it I was thinking that the elite universities try to transform their students into an army of ESTJs, nothing against ESTJs per se, but their characteristics seem to be the preferred outcome of an elite education.
    I knew someone was going to bring a type specific profile into this eventually. I don't think this is the case.
    Are you making distinction between elite and Ivies vs. the other 98% of colleges and universities? I know the article specifically refers to elite schools but:
    • What are the characteristics and demographics of people who decide to pursue and complete higher education?
    • What kind of schools do they attend?
    • What are the restrictions or limitations placed on their ability to attend a type of university?
    • How often and what subjects of post-baccalaureate education is pursued?

    Then you have to ask yourself what are the characteristics of the elite (or "regular") universities these students attend.
    • What are the endowments or sources of funding at these schools?
    • What is the orientation of the school, i.e. research, liberal arts, classic, art, polytechnic, private, public, etc.?
    • What is the diversity and strength of their programs and departments?
    • How many of these students are legacies?

    Each of these pieces significantly contribute to who attends what school and obscures the typological profile of who attends universities. I've heard it said much on this forum that it's mostly intuitives who attend college because that environment is optimal for intuitive development. :rolli: I'm pretty sure there are many non-ESTJs floating around that alphabet soup of intellectual elitism.

    As a side note, I've typed about half of the people who I work with that have PhDs and MDs as intuitives and I'm surprised the size of their intellectual snobbery and egos allow them to fit through their office doors. They treat anyone who can't hold a lengthy conversation about neurology like alien life forms, if they notice you at all. You're not even worth talking to unless you have at least a master's.
    Relationships have normal ebbs and flows. They do not automatically get better and better when the participants learn more and more about each other. Instead, the participants have to work through the tensions of the relationship (the dialectic) while they learn and group themselves and a parties in a relationships. At times the relationships is very open and sharing. Other time, one or both parties to the relationship need their space, or have other concerns, and the relationship is less open. The theory posits that these cycles occur throughout the life of the relationship as the persons try to balance their needs for privacy and open relationship.
    Interpersonal Communication Theories and Concepts
    Social Penetration Theory 1
    Social Penetration Theory 2
    Social Penetration Theory 3

  7. #7
    Order Now! pure_mercury's Avatar
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    Personally, I think I grew up around more ESTJ's and ESFJ's among my middle-class and lower-middle-class neighbors than I did at my Ivy League school. And I didn't feel that the school really instilled much in the way of one particular type. Wharton, being an elite business school, had a high percentage of ENTJ's, ESTJ's, and INTJ's, I would think.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  8. #8
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    ...they select for and develop one form of intelligence: the analytic.
    And analysis of course is useful.

    But analysis is not an end in itself. Analysis is simply a means.

    While we are not means to an end, we are ends in ourselves.

    Also analysis, along with judgement, is a cognitive faculty, while contemplation, imagination and metaphor are creative faculties.

    However the cognitive faculties and the creative faculties are mutually exclusive - so you can have one or the other, but not both at the same time. However they can dance with each other, one step at a time.

    I do think though that imagination comes first, because first you need something to analyse.

  9. #9
    man-made neptunesnet's Avatar
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    I just sent a link of the article to an old instructor of mine.

  10. #10
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Well, yeah, I agree with everything that is said in the article. However, I equally think that it would be complicated to create universities whose focus was not on the analytical and synthetic part of the learning process. I suppose "life", broadly speaking, is what will reward (or punish) a given person for possessing (or lacking) other types of less-easily-definable types of intelligence.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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