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  1. #1
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Default USA Gender Gap widens

    http://www.weforum.org/pdf/gendergap...itedStates.pdf

    The U.S. fell to No. 31, down from last year's No. 27 ranking and even farther from 2006's placement at No. 23. The U.S. has always done well on measures of education and economic participation, but has been held back by mediocre scores in women's health and political achievement. The U.S. gap in political empowerment is below the world's average, having closed only 14% of its gap.
    What do you think are the reasons for this gap? Lack of opportunity, or lack of interest?

    Countries that do not fully capitalize on one-half of their human resources run the risk of undermining their competitive potential. We hope to highlight the economic incentive behind empowering women, in addition to promoting equality as a basic human right, said co-author Saadia Zahidi
    Didnt really expand on what that economic incentive might be. Is there one?
    Last edited by Salomé; 03-30-2010 at 07:50 PM. Reason: Edited to remove "controversial" graphic
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    Gender equality leads to population decline. I'm all for it!

  3. #3
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    What do you think are the reasons for this gap? Lack of opportunity, or lack of interest?
    It's a certain sort of combination. Wome are denied opportunity more than men still in most fields, and they are denied in an informal way usually, since now days there are turns of laws against discriminating based on gender. But why is this still the case?

    I'm going to say it leans more toward a kind of lack of interest. It's not that there's a deficiency in feminist sentiment here in particular, but it's that political reformation has been steeply declining in this country ever since the 60s. Fixing gender inquality is something that takes a concerted, pro-active social and political effort. You can hardly expect that kind of thing from Americans in this age. So, opposition to the sort of casual, subtle ways that women are constricted is rather impotent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Didnt really expand on what that economic incentive might be. Is there one?
    Yes, I think that's fairly obvious. More human resources, higher human resources, are always better. It's that simple. Any area where women are being excluded, it is as the article says, half of the human resources are not being tapped (they do still cost money to support though). And by quality, I mean things like training. If women aren't expected to serve in some manner or another, then its unlikely that they will be given training necessary to make them good at it. So even if for some reason a woman was pulled into the position, she's not going to perform as well because her skills were not developed (and the results of her failure will unfortunately feed a vicious cycle). I'm always baffled that there's any doubt that excluding women from the workforce (any workforce, even the army or politics or business) is a squandering of vast potential.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    [Image shows 2008 data]
    I know this was about the USA, but I have to say it's really sad that Japan and South Korea are behind China. Get with the fucking program, people! Are you developed nations or not?!
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  4. #4
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    What do you think are the reasons for this gap? Lack of opportunity, or lack of interest?
    In most high-income liberal democracies, the party leadership effectively chooses who the Parliamentary candidates are, usually in multi-member districts, ensuring that voters vote for party platforms rather than individuals. In the United States, political candidates (who have independent capacity to raise campaign funds) have to defeat fellow party members in primaries, and then win a plurality of votes in single-member constituencies.

    In short, the political score is essentially an artificial indicator.

    In terms of the economic gap, its hard to say; much of it is historical inertia, but I think its largely lack of interest, which unfortunately reinforces the lack of opportunity for career-minded women.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    According to your link, the US gender gap didn't widen. It shrunk (since 2006), just at a lower rate compared to some other nations. The title of this thread is misleading.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    I would say that graph is pretty misleading. Blue highly contrasts with yellow even though a country in yellow could be just one point "less equal" than a country in blue.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    According to your link, the US gender gap didn't widen. It shrunk (since 2006), just at a lower rate compared to some other nations. The title of this thread is misleading.
    According to the PDF:

    USA INDEX
    2006: .704
    2007: .700
    2008: .718
    2009: .717

    So apparently the US declined by .004 in 2007 from 2006, then leaped up a whopping .018 (!) the next year. The following year, is has only dropped .001 ... less than the decline a few years ago.

    True, then: Hard to tell if that means anything at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I would say that graph is pretty misleading. Blue highly contrasts with yellow even though a country in yellow could be just one point "less equal" than a country in blue.
    Well, true. This was the issue when they did the red/blue USA maps to signify democratic and republican strongholds in the 2000 and 2004 elections. An entire county could be colored red or blue, and yet a red county could just be signifying that the balance of the county was just 51% red vs 49% blue.

    (This is the same problem we've had with rating one's MBTI score -- e.g., just because you answer T for 95% of the questions vs F, it doesn't mean your T has a strength of 95%; you might still only be 51% T vs 49% F in terms of actual function strength, barely T at all.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #8
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    I would say that graph is pretty misleading.
    The study itself appears to be highly misleading and/or defective; one doesn't have to be a huge proponent of the United States to find something wrong with a study that links Pakistan in the same grouping as the United States in terms of gender equality.
    Last edited by lowtech redneck; 03-30-2010 at 04:28 PM. Reason: wrong word

  9. #9
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    It's a certain sort of combination. Wome are denied opportunity more than men still in most fields, and they are denied in an informal way usually, since now days there are turns of laws against discriminating based on gender. But why is this still the case?

    I'm going to say it leans more toward a kind of lack of interest. It's not that there's a deficiency in feminist sentiment here in particular, but it's that political reformation has been steeply declining in this country ever since the 60s. Fixing gender inquality is something that takes a concerted, pro-active social and political effort. You can hardly expect that kind of thing from Americans in this age. So, opposition to the sort of casual, subtle ways that women are constricted is rather impotent.
    I wasn't asking about equality in general, I was referring specifically to the political empowerment stats, e.g % of women in political power. Are women not interested in holding these positions in the US? If so, why? If not, what are the barriers?
    Yes, I think that's fairly obvious. More human resources, higher human resources, are always better. It's that simple. Any area where women are being excluded, it is as the article says, half of the human resources are not being tapped (they do still cost money to support though).
    The way I read it, it's not that they are excluded from the workforce, as much as that they are excluded from positions of corporate or political power, and there is still a significant pay gap. What is the economic incentive to redress these discrepancies?

    Are the Nordic countries at the top of the list because they have successful economies, or do they have successful economies because they are at the top of the list?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    According to the PDF:

    USA INDEX
    2006: .704
    2007: .700
    2008: .718
    2009: .717

    So apparently the US declined by .004 in 2007 from 2006, then leaped up a whopping .018 (!) the next year. The following year, is has only dropped .001 ... less than the decline a few years ago.

    True, then: Hard to tell if that means anything at all.
    We're often compared to Europe in these sorts of studies, but I don't think that comparison is really fair. The US has far more immigration from poor countries than any European country (perhaps more than all European countries combined? I'm not sure). Those people tend to be more traditional (wife stays at home with the kids, etc).

    My point being, I think the US is doing pretty well on this issue, contrary to the implications of the OP.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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