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  1. #141
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    It seems to me that this study is leaving out some very important parts of "equality," such as rates of violence against women.

    Again, see what I said about male homemakers and PTA dads -- as long as we don't consider these things and only consider salaries, the only thing we are doing is comparing women to men and not the other way around. Equality goes both ways, doesn't it?
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  2. #142
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    And yet you didn't use those 10 seconds to answer your own question. Odd.
    Lateralus's bad faith is legendary. Sometimes it's pleasing and funny, and sometimes he's just making waste our time.

    ---

    Anyway, since he asked.
    In the US, the latino-Americans (spanish speaking) represent approximately 14% of the total population.

    That's more or less the same proportion of people of north African origin -Maghreb- who live in France (whether they are full French citizens -born in France-, or immigrants, legal or not legal).
    According to a 1999 statistics, 23% of French citizens had a parent who was not born French.
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  3. #143
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Indeed, that's a circular argument.
    But what does that MEAN!!!? And HOW is it circular?

  4. #144
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Lateralus's bad faith is legendary. Sometimes it's pleasing and funny, and sometimes he's just making waste our time.
    I'm skeptical of everyone, conservative and liberal. You seem to have no problem when I question conservative claims (you've never commented, at least), but when I dare question a liberal claim, you're offended. You're more than a bit one-sided.

    ---

    Anyway, since he asked.
    In the US, the latino-Americans (spanish speaking) represent approximately 14% of the total population.

    That's more or less the same proportion of people of north African origin -Maghreb- who live in France (whether they are full French citizens -born in France-, or immigrants, legal or not legal).
    According to a 1999 statistics, 23% of French citizens had a parent who was not born French.
    I'm still waiting on the source of those statistics from earlier.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #145
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    This makes no sense. If a political system creates inequality for whatever reason, then it is indeed reflective of inequality in that nation.
    I'm so glad to hear that Afghanistan (with 28% women in their Parliament in 2008) has made such tremendous strides toward equality for women, overtaking such countries as the United States (17%) and France (18%) and closely behind New Zealand (33%). It's truly a miracle of social development for them to have come such a long way in so short a period of time. It's strange, however, that such gender equality isn't reflected in such obvious indicators as literacy, school enrollment, statutory laws, and rates of violence against women...but I'm sure there is a rational explanation for this discrepancy.

  6. #146
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Or, you know, we could explain the lack of women in politics with two simple facts about US politics:

    1.) People stay in politics for a very long time, sometimes until their deaths rather than retiring

    2.) Incumbents usually win

    So. It is entirely possible that our female politicians have not worked their way through the ranks yet, and are just waiting for these older politicians to die and finally give up their seat.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  7. #147
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It's one thing to have an honest critique backed by real evidence, but this...come on.
    Wow, you've got that pole jammed pretty far up there, huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Or, you know, we could explain the lack of women in politics with two simple facts about US politics:

    1.) People stay in politics for a very long time, sometimes until their deaths rather than retiring

    2.) Incumbents usually win

    So. It is entirely possible that our female politicians have not worked their way through the ranks yet, and are just waiting for these older politicians to die and finally give up their seat.

    Excellent point. There's been a pretty steady increase in women running for office since at least 1992 or so - as President George Bush (the first) once famously quipped "I hope a lot of 'em lose, because they're liberal Democrats" but nevertheless many of them have won. Even ones that weren't at all qualified like Hillary Clinton getting elected Senator in a state she never even lived in. In Texas, for many years, the most popular politician in the state has been Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, who has a high-ranking position in the leadership of the Republican party in Washington.

    Often people confuse equality of condition with equality of opportunity. I think the number of people who would not vote for a candidate just because she is a woman has dropped to a pretty small number. I don't have a way to prove that, but then neither can it be proved the other way either, so ner.
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  8. #148
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Hmm, here's something interesting.

    Let's take a look at my home state of Missouri, which seems like it would be a sufficiently backwoodsy place to start. The Missouri State Legislature set term limits in 1992, stating that one can only have a seat at the Missouri House of Representatives for 8 years (4 2-year terms) and a seat at the Missouri Senate for 8 years (2 4-year terms). Currently the Missouri State Senate has 8 female members out of 34, or a smidge less than 1/4th of all senators being female.

    The United States Senate, which has no limit on terms, has 14 female senators out of 100 -- 14%.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  9. #149
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Hmm, here's something interesting.

    Let's take a look at my home state of Missouri, which seems like it would be a sufficiently backwoodsy place to start. The Missouri State Legislature set term limits in 1992, stating that one can only have a seat at the Missouri House of Representatives for 8 years (4 2-year terms) and a seat at the Missouri Senate for 8 years (2 4-year terms). Currently the Missouri State Senate has 8 female members out of 34, or a smidge less than 1/4th of all senators being female.

    The United States Senate, which has no limit on terms, has 14 female senators out of 100 -- 14%.
    All Hail the next senator of Missouri, miss Haphazard!

    The future is what we're doing with it!
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  10. #150
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    I really was hoping that Blackmail would supply a source, but since he didn't, I'll do it.

    According to EU statistics, there were a total of 16,190,900 non-EU nationals living in the EU in 2003. That includes non-EU nationals from the US, Canada, and Australia.

    http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/doc...ip_2003_en.pdf

    According to the 2004 Yearbook of Immigration statistics (the closest year I could find to 2003 for Europe), the US had a total foreign born population of 34,860,000 in 2004. That includes Canada, Europe, and Australia.

    http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/s...arbook2004.pdf

    The report is pretty long, but this wikipedia link has a summary.

    If you assumed that all non-EU nationals were from "poor" countries (which would be a flawed assumption), that total would be ~16.2 million. According to the chart, the US has at least 18 million immigrants from "poor" countries, and that's only if you count the top 10 nationalities (which only accounts for ~50% of the 36 million total). Even if you assumed the EU accounted for 50% of the other half (which I think would be a very liberal estimate), the US would still have about 24 million immigrants from "poor" countries.

    On top of all of this, the total population of the EU is about 500 million, quite a bit more than the 300 million in the US. If you were to break down these immigrant statistics into percentages, the differences would be even more striking.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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