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  1. #101
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Is it really wrong for a wife to stay at home if the family can afford it?

    I mean, jeez, usually "homemakers" are busier than working people!

    Literacy rate, education rate, and health rates of women are very important figures -- but the amount of women in the labor force and in elected positions seems very misleading. Probably a better indicator of equality would be the number of men in traditionally "women's" positions, such as how many male homemakers there are, PTA leaders, educators at lower grade-levels, nursing, etc. You get the idea, and it would probably have to change criteria from culture to culture because of the different expectations of women, but otherwise we're defining equality as "women being like men," which is totally bogus.
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  2. #102
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    This makes no sense. If a political system creates inequality for whatever reason, then it is indeed reflective of inequality in that nation.
    Exactly. His argument seems to be that it's a bogus comparison because no one is going to get elected in the US without access to vast wealth. And women don't have such access, so naturally they won't get elected.
    New Zealand has a lot of immigrants (1 in 5 citizens were born outside New Zealand) and yet it was rated highly on equality. True, a number of migrants are Britons and South Africans (being mainly middle class) but we also have large numbers from poor, patriarchial nations such as Fiji, Samoa, India, Phillipines and Tonga. It is likely the percentage of poor migrants is a little higher in the US but I doubt it is a major factor as you say.
    This is true. Do you think having a female head of state and more women in parliament has improved gender equality overall? Or do you think that this would have been inconceivable unless there was already parity? Why do you think NZ is so progressive in this respect? It has a reputation, after all, for having quite a "macho" culture.
    I don't think America is really all that bad either, but then I've never been there (unless LAX counts as America ). I'd like to hear from someone who has actually lived and worked in both the US and another western nation and felt a noticeable difference in levels of sexism.
    I travel quite a bit for work. My experience aligns with the report. I'd rank Nordic countries at the top, NZ next, UK is middling and US worst. I experienced quite shocking sexist and racist attitudes there. I've never felt more like a piece of meat in my life. But that's just one person's experience. Counts for nothing.
    And really, all nations need to be doing a better job at closing the inequality gap - there's no room for smug accusations. Lets face it, the ranking is listing countries from 'bad' to 'abysmal'. Pointing the finger at the US for having a 'dreadful' record while lauding other nations for being 'substandard' is a bit stupid.
    I read the thread and I don't recall anyone saying it was 'dreadful'.
    In fact, apart from pay disparity, only political empowerment stands out as a real issue. That's why I zeroed in on that. Those are the indices that are dragging the score down. I wanted to find out what women thought were the reasons for that. The overwhelming apathy from them + hostility and defensiveness from the guys, paints its own picture. Is it even worth motivating women to engage politically? Is it worth leveling the playing field? I don't know. There are hints at economic incentives, but they are unsubstantiated. We had a female PM for ten years or so and all she did was run the country into the ground. If American women don't care, why should anyone else?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #103
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Perhaps what makes American women feel discriminated against is different than what makes you feel discriminated against.

    Either way, there's an old joke here: "Why are there so few women in politics?" "It's too much of a hassle to make-up two faces!" I think this paints a picture of American's opinions of both politicians and women at the same time.
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  4. #104
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    I travel quite a bit for work. My experience aligns with the report. I'd rank Nordic countries at the top, NZ next, UK is middling and US worst. I experienced quite shocking sexist and racist attitudes there. I've never felt more like a piece of meat in my life. But that's just one person's experience. Counts for nothing.
    I read the thread and I don't recall anyone saying it was 'dreadful'.
    In fact, apart from pay disparity, only political empowerment stands out as a real issue. That's why I zeroed in on that. Those are the indices that are dragging the score down. I wanted to find out what women thought were the reasons for that. The overwhelming apathy from them + hostility and defensiveness from the guys, paints its own picture. Is it even worth motivating women to engage politically? Is it worth leveling the playing field? I don't know. There are hints at economic incentives, but they are unsubstantiated. We had a female PM for ten years or so and all she did was run the country into the ground. If American women don't care, why should anyone else?
    LOL
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #105
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    Perhaps what makes American women feel discriminated against is different than what makes you feel discriminated against.
    Actually, I don't. Not sure why you jump to that conclusion.
    I feel remarkably free and fortunate.
    Either way, there's an old joke here: "Why are there so few women in politics?" "It's too much of a hassle to make-up two faces!" I think this paints a picture of American's opinions of both politicians and women at the same time.
    Indeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #106
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    LOL
    Okay, even I'm going to admit, that IS quite funny.
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  7. #107
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    Actually, I don't. Not sure why you jump to that conclusion.
    I feel remarkably free and fortunate.
    What I am saying is that what makes an American woman feel remarkably free and fortunate is not what makes you feel so.

    You could say you and I both have skewed perspectives. You are speaking from a European/Oceanic point of view. When America speaks, we speak from our own country and immigrants, which, at the moment, are mostly Asian, Middle-Eastern, and Central American.
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  8. #108
    veteran attention whore Jeffster's Avatar
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    Women control pretty much everything in America. I don't need a bunch of stupid "studies" to tell me that. All I have to do is observe the dudes sitting in the women's section of the dept store by the fitting rooms for hours on end.
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  9. #109
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffster View Post
    Women control pretty much everything in America. I don't need a bunch of stupid "studies" to tell me that. All I have to do is observe the dudes sitting in the women's section of the dept store by the fitting rooms for hours on end.
    It's one thing to have an honest critique backed by real evidence, but this...come on.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #110
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haphazard View Post
    What I am saying is that what makes an American woman feel remarkably free and fortunate is not what makes you feel so.

    You could say you and I both have skewed perspectives. You are speaking from a European/Oceanic point of view. When America speaks, we speak from our own country and immigrants, which, at the moment, are mostly Asian, Middle-Eastern, and Central American.
    With all due respect, what are you 14? That's not a woman.
    Maybe you're content now that you're a part of an education system that seems to favour your gender (surprised no one has questioned the apparent bias against males - gender equality works both ways). But what happens when you graduate and you get a job where you're working beside a guy with the same (or fewer) qualifications who is earning 30%+ more? Still happy? How do you redress that without the right support systems and legislature? What about when he gets promoted above you because of his gender, still happy? Or maybe you leave to have a baby but struggle to get back into work because there just isn't any support for working mothers, still happy?
    Live a little, then tell me that I'm the one with the skewed perspective.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

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