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  1. #31
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    I never said there were NO options, but a parent may feel trapped, may not be aware of all of their options. And school staff are not above using things like harassment to make a parent feel they have no options. My sister kept her child out as long as she needed to but that didn't mean the school staff didn't harass her and apply pressure. A parent who is not that savy or not used to being assertive against authority figures may find it hard to bear up under pressure from school staff.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Lurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    Since they are minors, I think their parents should be charged as well.

    Afteral, those kids had to learn that type of behavior somewhere.
    Whoa, whoa. You're making a huge leap by implying that the parents should be blamed because "those kids had to learn it somewhere." Kids aren't kept in isolated bubbles at home to be neatly delivered and popped daily for a full school day. Hell, even if they were, do you not think that other influences are at play? This is extremely weak logic, and a dangerous path to do down, to boot.

    I think the kids should be charged with something, although I'm not sure what, exactly. The school officials seem culpable, too, although I'm not sure to what extent.

    The kids do shoulder most of the blame. I would draw the line at trying them as adults (except for the 18 (?) year old, natch).

    Added: This is somewhat of a personal issue for me, because J was bullied at school recently, and my mother and I discussed it and were preparing for home schooling asap. The only reason we didn't carry through is because J begged to go back. Mom went and sat in at her classes to stare the kids down the next few days. Sometimes I think my mom kicks ass.

  3. #33
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Schooling/parents are most to blame in my opinion. I assume someone being bullied on this sort of scale, is not something that is invisible to tutors/parents.

    A little bit of average name calling and whatnot, well, that's what kids are for. But bodily harm, and such. Should've been stopped and the victim should've been getting aid and stability from tutors as well.

    If you allow a child to be on a rampage, without putting on breaks, they'll continue. That's a fact. So in that sense, even though their clearly guilty of wrongdoings, the fact they weren't stopped, and thus that it gotten this far, is expected behaviour in my opinion.

    So yeah, teach the bullies and lock up the tutors.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  4. #34
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    There's been some equally atrocious stories from the UK, a woman recently killed herself and her child after years of harrassment from local children and adolescents, she'd made numerous reports to the police and their handling of the thing is under review now.

    There were also UK docu-soaps about it and its featured in some story lines of popular adolescent/young person soaps, some of which have been interesting in the extent to which they do not shrink from the more horrifying aspects of bullying (for instance one featured the behaviour of the bullies escalating from physcial violence to male rape, it was convincing and made some good points about rape as an act of physical power and violence).

    There have been some really good perspectives on how these kinds of behaviours emerge, they are fostered by family dynamics and culture, one of the greatest, although most people can not stomach it, is the film Eden Lake. Its a truly terrifying perspective on what is really happening when children are behaving all kinds of psychotic.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sLiPpY View Post
    Since they are minors, I think their parents should be charged as well.

    Afteral, those kids had to learn that type of behavior somewhere.
    NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Do you have Children????

  6. #36
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Exit View Post
    NO NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Do you have Children????
    The parents arent blameless, I know where you are coming from with this since I work with kids who are generally beyond control but there's a reason, which isnt entirely innate or genetic, that they wound up like that.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    The parents arent blameless, I know where you are coming from with this since I work with kids who are generally beyond control but there's a reason, which isnt entirely innate or genetic, that they wound up like that.
    Hmm well I consider my ex wife's children. She has raised them to be polite and considerate and is an excellent mother.
    They are cared for and given plenty of affection. They aren't beaten or sexually abused.
    One of them sounds exactly like the kind of kid you would expect from what I just described.. He is humble,polite and generous. He gets decent grades and his teachers love him often using the word pleasant when describing him.

    The other is hell on wheels.. he is disruptive, mouthy and a law unto himself.
    he is constantly in trouble at school and has even had issues with Facebook bullying. He is uncontrollable. Grounding him does not work, taking away his x-box doesn't work , NOTHING works .. and of course she isn't even allowed to smack his ass.
    When you ask him why he behaves like he does.. he answers .. "because I like being bad" ..
    So when he finally crosses the line and gets in REAL shit (which I suspect he will) should my ex be charged ???
    Is she at fault ? and how so?

  8. #38
    Senior Member Survive & Stay Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Exit View Post
    Hmm well I consider my ex wife's children. She has raised them to be polite and considerate and is an excellent mother.
    They are cared for and given plenty of affection. They aren't beaten or sexually abused.
    One of them sounds exactly like the kind of kid you would expect from what I just described.. He is humble,polite and generous. He gets decent grades and his teachers love him often using the word pleasant when describing him.

    The other is hell on wheels.. he is disruptive, mouthy and a law unto himself.
    he is constantly in trouble at school and has even had issues with Facebook bullying. He is uncontrollable. Grounding him does not work, taking away his x-box doesn't work , NOTHING works .. and of course she isn't even allowed to smack his ass.
    When you ask him why he behaves like he does.. he answers .. "because I like being bad" ..
    So when he finally crosses the line and gets in REAL shit (which I suspect he will) should my ex be charged ???
    Is she at fault ? and how so?
    Doesnt sound like she has been negligent or contributed to the problem, there are parents who are either so apathetic or blinkered that they have facilitated the child developing into a complete villain. They are responsible for that.

    So far as criminalising them goes I'd really have to ask what it would achieve, is it likely to placate the victims family or out raged others? Not likely, is it likely to effect the bullying or anti-social kid themselves? Not likely, the damage is done, they've developed that way and it cant be undeveloped, not really.

    Its not something I'd generalise about, its a great case by case thing, in the main I really and truly do not generalise about children, no two are alike in my experience and I hate it when people either minimise or generalise in relation to them.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
    If the mother was filing complaints before the girl took her own life then Ivy's previous question stands. If something is that bad that you are motivated to file complaints, why leave your child in that environment?

    (not attempting to blame the parents, and don't know the full story so am assuming the girl was still attending school)
    From what I've read, this girl tended to keep her problems to herself.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  10. #40
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by No Exit View Post
    The other is hell on wheels.. he is disruptive, mouthy and a law unto himself.
    he is constantly in trouble at school and has even had issues with Facebook bullying. He is uncontrollable. Grounding him does not work, taking away his x-box doesn't work , NOTHING works .. and of course she isn't even allowed to smack his ass.
    When you ask him why he behaves like he does.. he answers .. "because I like being bad" ..
    So when he finally crosses the line and gets in REAL shit (which I suspect he will) should my ex be charged ???
    Is she at fault ? and how so?
    Emancipate him.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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