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  1. #31
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by olly_olly View Post
    Hi there friends. I have taken some tests and have come to the conclusion that Left-Libertarian is my political standing. Can i get some insight on this topic (left-libertarian)? plz people politics is very important to me I want to make a difference someday.
    Here, knock yourself out:
    What is left libertarianism? | leftlibertarian.org

  2. #32
    Sniffles
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    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    But I LOVE free market capitalism, and I HATE most of what the government does. I am a liberal in the old-school, John Locke/Thomas Jefferson/Thomas Paine sense. Fuck paternalism!
    Could be a Mutualist, thus be in favor of free markets and be against capitalism at the same time.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Could be a Mutualist, thus be in favor of free markets and be against capitalism at the same time.
    I am somewhat familiar with Josiah Warren. Haven't read much Proudhon, though. I like the individualist anarchists from the 19th Century.
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by olly_olly View Post
    This is what I got on the Nolan test you guys. What do you think this means lol.
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...1&d=1270426459

    I dub thee a liberaltarian!

    Liberaltarians | Brink Lindsey | Cato Institute: Commentary
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  5. #35
    Sniffles
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    Proudhon is very interesting writer. He was also Marx's rival for a time.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Proudhon is very interesting writer. He was also Marx's rival for a time.
    Are you familiar with Kropotkin?
    Who wants to try a bottle of merc's "Extroversion Olive Oil?"

  7. #37
    Sniffles
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    Yes I am. I'm less familiar with Bakunin at the moment, but I am working on him.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Yes I am. I'm less familiar with Bakunin at the moment, but I am working on him.
    Bakunin was more of an anti-clerical than anti-statist figure, the state didnt really exist in the modern sense, if you want to read a good collection of his writings check out anything edited by GP Maximoff. Maximoff is good himself but he was only really a pamphleteer besides one book which as an attack on the bolsheviks as the new bonapartists "The Guillotine at work".

    I'm not sure that Proudhon was a rival so much, perhaps in a literary sense, Marx was essentially combining german idealism/hegelianism, english political economy and french socialism into a single romantic narrative, Proudhon was the french socialism.

    I can understand Marx's enthusiasm and frustration with Proudhon though, he was a pacey writer, a lot of his books were real page turners but at the same time, while enjoyable, they dont really form a coherent, consistent whole. I'm not sure Marx does either but he tried harder.

    The thing to remember about them all is that they started out as and essentially always were political journalists, a little like PJ O'Rourke, but managed to get their theories and theorising taken much more seriously than anyone would have believed.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Could be a Mutualist, thus be in favor of free markets and be against capitalism at the same time.
    They call themselves uncapitalist as opposed to anti-capitalists, I think its one of the few really honest accounts of anarchism, in the abscence of central planning, monopoly or policed regulation (any of which could exist with some arrangement of firms rather than a state, such as producer syndics, producer and consumer councils or any other anarchist ideas) its inevitable that markets will exist and function, its essentially an acknowledgement of the mixed nature of any economy anyway.

    Marx didnt like it because essentially he was working in terms of huge paradigm shifts, the crisis, obsolescence and disappearence of capitalism he was envisaging was and would be something like the disappearence of absolute monarchies or, for instance, totemism as archaic social forms.

    Mutualist changes appeared to be reformist, at once preserving rather than dispensing with capitalist norms and forms while attempting also to recover norms and forms of an earlier time, parsimonious, yeoman farmers and the like. To be honest I tend to think that Proudhon was closer to Tom Paine and Jefferson's utopia of independent, self-reliant and subsisting yeoman farmers than anything else within socialism itself. Bakunin, Kropotkin and all the others after that have all been big departures from it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    Thank you for the nice set of quotes to read from. I will surely think everyone on this site is of biblical proportions (which I might want to add, I don't believe any of the Bible's stories to be true, only some of the lessons and morals).

    Quote Originally Posted by alexx View Post
    Well, looks like you are just a libertarian, not left nor right.
    Yes but I could also be a -7,-7 (left-libertarian) as I am definitely not for free-markets, because they either have to be totally free (meaning no insider information sharing) or not free at all but controlled by the whole population for an economy to work. So I will just take both and learn from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by pure_mercury View Post
    I dub thee a liberaltarian!
    Hahaha too bad I don't own a business to hire you on that enthusiasm lol. I would agree with you, but the main differences between left and right (economy mostly) were not very integrated into the test. I did like the insightful read though and I sure would like for free markets to work but they just don't. People need to be the ones controlling the market and in free-markets it's always the business owners controlling it.
    Let The Revolution Begin
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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