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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    A longstanding situation which the rightest government has vastly improved;
    Vastly improved? Prove it/

    unlike in Venezuela, where violent crime has become an epidemic under the Chavez regime. If you didn't know all of this, then the problem is you, not with the American media.
    Right-- because paramilitaries committing violent crimes while acting as proxies for the state and the ruling class is exactly the same as violent crime rates generally rising under a particular political administration.

    We were discussing political repression now you want to talk about crime rates in general. Shifting the goalposts, apples and oranges-- take your pick of cliches to describe what you are doing.

    And I'm well aware of the violent crime rates in Venezuela. Spent a good amount of time in Caracas.

  2. #22
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Some Guy View Post
    Vastly improved? Prove it/
    Oh, for fuck's sake...

    There are statistics in this article: Colombia's Uribe defends his record on trade union murders | McClatchy

    There are also statistics in this article: The Colombian Miracle | The Weekly Standard

    Yes, the above is a highly biased source; ignore the commentary and look at the figures cited on the second page.

    This information has been readily available from multiple sources for years, how is it that someone as knowledgeable and concerned about Latin American events as yourself missed it?

    As for Venezuela, much of the violence has been political violence from Chavez's bully boys against anti-government protesters and media figures opposed to the regime, not to mention "vigilante" action routinely taken against various store-owners and farmers, who I'm sure you will dismiss as bourgeois oppressors receiving their just desserts.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Oh, for fuck's sake...

    There are statistics in this article: Colombia's Uribe defends his record on trade union murders | McClatchy
    Killings of labor union leaders have dropped steadily from about 200 in 2002, to 60 in 2006, to 26 in 2007. But the deaths of 22 labor union activists so far this year have triggered alarm bells in some government quarters and prompted Uribe to raise financial rewards for people who offer valuable information.

    And they went up again in 2008 and 2009. I will grant you that there may be a general trend of reduction in such killings under Uribe as opposed to the leftist Pastrana regime. Oh wait, Pastrana wasn't leftist, he was a member of the Conservative Party-- so what was your point again?

    There are also statistics in this article: The Colombian Miracle | The Weekly Standard

    Yes, the above is a highly biased source; ignore the commentary and look at the figures cited on the second page.
    The figures cited do not necessarily support your statement-- there are no figures regarding labor unionists murdered or general political assassinations.

    This information has been readily available from multiple sources for years, how is it that someone as knowledgeable and concerned about Latin American events as yourself missed it?
    Oh, please.

    As for Venezuela, much of the violence has been political violence from Chavez's bully boys against anti-government protesters and media figures opposed to the regime,
    How much, exactly?

    not to mention "vigilante" action routinely taken against various store-owners and farmers, who I'm sure you will dismiss as bourgeois oppressors receiving their just desserts.
    Anymore ad hominem arguments you wanna toss out there, redneck?

  4. #24
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Some Guy View Post

    so what was your point again?

    The figures cited do not necessarily support your statement-- there are no figures regarding labor unionists murdered or general political assassinations.

    How much, exactly?

    Anymore ad hominem arguments you wanna toss out there, redneck?
    1.) That the Colombian government is not a good example of right-wing oppression to cite as a foil to far-left regimes in Latin America, and has in fact been an outstanding success story for human rights in terms of relative improvements. Oh, and that your own charges of hypocrisy are hypocritical.

    2.) Its highly probable that the decline in trade unionist deaths is not the only corresponding statistic to the larger figures. I'm almost positive that the numbers for reporters, politicians, and jurors reveal a similar documented decline in violent statistics (I remember reading articles saying as much, but my memory is as imperfect as anyone else'sa), but I'm just too lazy to look up the numbers right now. Why don't you prove me wrong by looking up the comparative statistics yourself? Afraid that you will be wrong on this count as well?

    3.) I don't know, check out several years worth of information from these site's and get a general idea for yourself:

    Venezuela - Hugo Chavez - Human Rights - Alek Boyd - Eva Golinger | www.vcrisis.com

    The Devil’s Excrement

    4.) The irony is killing me (re-read your opening post).

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