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  1. #31
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    I'm not afraid such treatments will be denied.

    Your comment that I don't know why that procedure is covered by your insurance. It probably shouldn't be indicates that you understand that one highly elastic factor in health care costs involves what treatments to cover or provide. Soon, as the costs of Obamacare go through the roof, medical rationing will get more and more extreme. Death Panels, for example, will be created, and if Grandma's cancer treatment costs too much, she will not be treated.
    If Death Panels are inevitable, they must exist in other countries. Where are they?

    Re: I find it interesting that someone who has a net-negative effect on the system would be so vehemently against universal health care.--this is yet another statement of yours which is idiotic, which shows that you haven't thought about the implications of your verbiage. If I have a net negative effect now, will I not have a net negative effect under universal health care, spread over a larger number of people who may or may not wish to fund my treatment?
    Of course you would, but you don't see the inconsistency here? It's okay for YOU to have a net-negative effect, but not others? That's hypocrisy.

    Is not the remedy to that to move toward a system in which either I or those who wish to fund my care actually do so, while those who do not, do not?
    It would, in a perfect world.

    Should you be forced to pay for the liver transplant of someone who contracted hepatitis c via IV drug use, or the triple bypass surgery of a grossly obese individual who refused to diet and exercise?
    I don't like it, but our options are limited.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #32
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    If I don't like a restaurant, I don't eat there, I eat someplace else. In a free world, there are always alternatives.

    Under Obamacare, there will be fewer and fewer insurance companies providing fewer and fewer alternatives which will differ less and less.
    No, there are NOT always alternatives.

    Under the Japanese system, there are over 3500 different insurance plans available.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #33
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Death Panels, for example, will be created, and if Grandma's cancer treatment costs too much, she will not be treated.
    You actually believe that?

    That kind of belief summarizes a person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    No, there are NOT always alternatives.

    Under the Japanese system, there are over 3500 different insurance plans available.
    Yes siree. As an aside, Japan also has more hospital, and specifically private hospitals than the USA. They have more private health practioners. Germany is the same way (including having more insurance plans than the USA).

    A lot of the material that is commonly espoused about UHC systems are derived from very specific, narrow examples. Great Britain and, of all places, Cuba, are thw two that opponents draw from the most to create their negative image of the policy.

    I believe that in practical terms, there is actually very little individual choice or self-determination concerning healthcare in this country.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  4. #34
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Yes siree. As an aside, Japan also has more hospital, and specifically private hospitals than the USA. They have more private health practioners. Germany is the same way (including having more insurance plans than the USA).

    A lot of the material that is commonly espoused about UHC systems are derived from very specific, narrow examples. Great Britain and, of all places, Cuba, are thw two that opponents draw from the most to create their negative image of the policy.
    I've noticed that discussions of UHC almost NEVER talk about Asia, specifically Japan. The US doesn't have to copy a European country.

    I believe that in practical terms, there is actually very little individual choice or self-determination concerning healthcare in this country.
    Most people have no choice. Even doctors have very little choice. Health care decisions are made by insurance companies, right now.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    If Death Panels are inevitable, they must exist in other countries. Where are they?
    The UK, for example.

    Hint: They are not called "Death Panels." In much the same way that when the US accidentally bombs civilians we cause "unintended collateral damage." And when a plane crashes, it's referred to as an "uncontrolled flight into terrain."

  6. #36
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    The UK, for example.

    Hint: They are not called "Death Panels." In much the same way that when the US accidentally bombs civilians we cause "unintended collateral damage." And when a plane crashes, it's referred to as an "uncontrolled flight into terrain."
    How many people have these Death Panels executed? Is it more than the number of people who have died in the US due to denied coverage or rescission?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    How many people have these Death Panels executed?
    Not executed, refused to treat.

    The number is probably not knowable, for obvious reasons.

    Actually, some countries are moving toward pressuring patients into euthanasia, but that's not a big issue at this time. It almost certainly will become a big issue in 10-20 years.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Not executed, refused to treat.

    The number is probably not knowable, for obvious reasons.

    Actually, some countries are moving toward pressuring patients into euthanasia, but that's not a big issue at this time. It almost certainly will become a big issue in 10-20 years.
    So you're claiming something exists, but then you say there's no way to prove it exists. That's top notch debate right there.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #39
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    So you're claiming something exists, but then you say there's no way to prove it exists. That's top notch debate right there.
    Be nice to Fecal McAngry-- I don't agree with half the shit he's saying, but his username is Fecal McAngry...this has to be the coolest username I've ever seen.

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