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  1. #31
    Oberon
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    What? We did. The point of the revolution was for the petit bourgeoisie to wrest control of the colonies from the large landholding interests in England, who were the repositories of history at those times.
    "repositories of history"?!?... that's bullshit.

  2. #32
    Whisky Old & Women Young Speed Gavroche's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Do you think that politics can be conducted in the abscence of ideology?
    Politicians are for more lead by selfish interest in their act rather than convictions. So, yes.
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  3. #33
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speed Gavroche View Post
    Politicians are for more lead by selfish interest in their act rather than convictions. So, yes.
    but not effective. in terms of overall society's progress.

  4. #34
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    What does it mean to say "cut themselves off from history?"

    Did we go into a time loop and spin off from the planet?

    Nothing in your post support's Victor's assertion that the USA is living in a time loop cut off from history.

    Plus, there's a lot more to USA history and culture than just the British Empire. This land had a developing history of its own, people were here already when the British came. Much of this country is rich in the cultures brought here by the French and the Spanish. (and others) What about what American blacks have created here in culture?
    It did have a developing history. Then we killed 95% of it. But it was mostly accidental. We didn't know they were susceptible to our diseases.

  5. #35
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oberon View Post
    "repositories of history"?!?... that's bullshit.
    Who do I read about in history class? Ordinary people like you and me, or wealthy land-owners and their progeny?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Who do I read about in history class? Ordinary people like you and me, or wealthy land-owners and their progeny?
    If you are speaking of college level, then you must be purposely avoiding social history classes. You have odd ideas about what history is. Very odd.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    If you are speaking of college level, then you must be purposely avoiding social history classes. You have odd ideas about what history is. Very odd.
    Even then, those are niche studies. They have little bearing on the average person's perception of themselves and their place in the world, both in space and time.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Even then, those are niche studies.
    No they aren't. They are mainstream scholarly history. You are confusing them with ethnic or gender studies.

    They have little bearing on the average person's perception of themselves and their place in the world, both in space and time.
    The average person gets Texas style textbook indoctrination into history and then watches a documentary on the History channel when trapped over at Grandpa's house and thinks they know what scholarly history is.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    No they aren't. They are mainstream scholarly history. You are confusing them with ethnic or gender studies.
    Only 20% of the population has a college degree. Thus, niche.

    The average person gets Texas style textbook indoctrination into history and then watches a documentary on the History channel when trapped over at Grandpa's house and thinks they know what scholarly history is.
    History isn't about the scholars. It's about a society's view of itself and how things are, how things were, and how they should be. History is the very core of ideology.

    And just like any other ideology, the powerful manipulate it to secure their own position, to the detriment of others.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Only 20% of the population has a college degree. Thus, niche.
    Anyone can chose at any time to educate themselves, whether they attend college or not. The only reason people remain ignorant is through their own willful mental laziness.


    History isn't about the scholars. It's about a society's view of itself and how things are, how things were, and how they should be. History is the very core of ideology.

    And just like any other ideology, the powerful manipulate it to secure their own position, to the detriment of others.
    If you want to talk about pop history, urban myths or cultural fables that's fine just be clear that is what you mean. I was talking only about History as a scholarly subject.


    You are wrong in your definition of what History is. History has nothing to do with "how things should be", History is studying what actually happened and why. History is not a study of how things are now either, that's journalism. One has to get at least ten years away from an event before there can be any historical perspective on that event. Current events are not history. History is not a society's current "view of itself" either. Ten years required before historical perspective can be gained. You are speaking of things like journalism and current events.

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