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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post


    I'm amazed at how wrong you are about everything. It's not worth the time to refute every point because there's so much crap, I have better things to do with my time.
    I'm sure the bankruptcy of the U.S. will take you by complete surprise. Continue to pay attention to trivialities, if you wish.

  2. #342
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Again, I'm simple-minded, and I won't be offended if you don't want to entertain the question, but how can we go bankrupt if there isn't any money to begin with? Our money is not real money. We've BEEN bankrupt. What difference does it make?

  3. #343
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    I'm sure the bankruptcy of the U.S. will take you by complete surprise. Continue to pay attention to trivialities, if you wish.
    I think the point is, that in an investment, you think about the actual business, it's viability, it's long-term prospects, etc ~ kind of like it sounds like the impression I get of the way Warren Buffett does things.

    What people are doing now is more like frantically popping around like their money is a hammer in a whack-a-mole game. This may have short-term advantages, but it's not particularly in the best interest of anyone, including the investor, long term.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  4. #344
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    FYI: I am researching the whole issue of Cuban health care; there's more than meets the eye, and I am blending this all together.

    It seems possible there is a two-tier system - where money is still a factor and determines what type of care you will receive.

    You may not want to be the poorest Cuban in Cuba.
    About two years ago, my Father needed dental work.

    As per his dentist in Virginia, he needed a root canal, a post, a bridge, and some veneers.

    The dentist quoted $25,000 to do all the structural work + using porcelain veneers to finish it all off, and $40,000 to do the same job BUT use porcelain caps instead of veneers.

    My Dad, having much procurement experience, went online and did some research.

    He found that Costa Rica is a Mecca for cosmetic surgery. He sent the quote from his dentist to several dentists in Costa Rica (capital city, whatever it is) and awaited the responses (bids).

    He took the three best bids and called them to schedule an appointment to tour their facility. He flew down and met with all of them. At the place he liked the best, he asked to have a cleaning performed. He said is it was the best cleaning he ever received from a dentist, and it only cost him $25.

    He booked a room at a hotel. The hotel staff all spoke English, German, French, and Spanish. They had nurses on staff in case you needed medical assistance after any procedure. The room had high-speed Internet, cable TV, and overlooked a valley that had 2 active volcanoes in the distance. The room cost him $67 per night.

    Finally, he got the dental work done. The clinic was run by two dentists, a married couple, both half German and half Costa Rican. They had a facility that was fully equipped with the latest and greates equipment by SIEMENS. They made veneers and crowns there for their own use, in addition to filling orders for other dentists. They told him he could have all the work done listed in his quote for $5,000, whether he wanted porcelain veneers OR caps. So he got the caps!

    He was so happy with the experience, and the enormous amount of money he saved, that he surprised eveyone by getting liposuction done on his abdomen to ease strain on two herniated discs in his back. He wasn't fat at all to begin with but he was having trouble losing the last few pounds his PT had told him to. So, VOILA! They were gone!

    My brother and his wife recently both went down there to get dental work done. Both reported the same levels of service and cleanliness, and similar price savings.

    This isn't the only country where there is good health care. Cuba, Costa Rica, plenty of places are not as inflated as the USA, and provide just as good care...or better.
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  5. #345
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    In the meantime, I'll speak to what I know better:

    Detroit has been "dying" for years and years now. This is hardly a secret or new news. Connecting that to Health Care - preposterous!

    Here's one fun quote from the diatribe above:

    MEXICAN. This is off-shore medicine. In Canada, when you can't get treated for months or years, you come to the United States and pay. This will not be possible for Canadians much longer, except for rich ones. Mexico will serve upper middle-class Americans as the USA has served Canadians.
    @bold: that is just a load of bs, quite frankly. Actual studies have been conducted on this topic; the proportion of people who elect to come to the US from Canada for health care is practically infinitessimal.

    This study was undertaken to quantify the nature and extent of use by Canadians of medical services provided in the United States. It is frequently claimed, by critics of single-payer public health insurance on both sides of the border, that such use is large and that it reflects Canadian patients dissatisfaction with their inadequate health care system. All of the evidence we have, however, indicates that the anecdotal reports of Medicare refugees from Canada are not the tip of a southbound iceberg but a small number of scattered cubes. The cross-border flow of care-seeking patients appears to be very small.

    ...

    These findings from U.S. data are supported by responses to a large population-based health survey, the NPHS, in Canada undertaken during our study period (1996). As noted above, 0.5 percent of respondents indicated that they had received health care in the United States in the prior year, but only 0.11 percent (20 of 18,000 respondents) said that they had gone there for the purpose of obtaining any type of health care, whether or not covered by the public plans.
    Source:
    Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians Use Of Health Care Services In The United States
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    When people see some things as good,
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  6. #346
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halla74 View Post
    About two years ago, my Father needed dental work.
    Thanks for sharing that; it's astounding. There is a book dedicated to the concept of medical tourism, I have just discovered:

    Patients Beyond Borders

    What an education I am receiving on this whole topic!

    Patients Beyond Borders is the first comprehensive guide for patients considering medical tourism. Less about travel and all about healthcare choices, this consumer guidebook provides practical answers for the increasing number of healthcare consumers seeking access to the best, most affordable hospitals in the world.

    Easy to understand, impartial, extensively researched, and filled with authoritative and accessible advice, Patients Beyond Borders gives you detailed information on the best hospitals and treatment centers in more than 40 destination countries worldwide, plus data on local and international accreditation, health travel planners, accommodations, and more.

    Whether it's dental work, heart surgery, orthopedics, fertilization clinics, neurosurgery, cosmetic surgery, or LASIK eye repair, you'll want to know about the safest, most affordable options when considering your treatment choices. Patients Beyond Borders is the best way to determine if health travel is right for you, and to help you plan and budget your journey.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I think the point is, that in an investment, you think about the actual business, it's viability, it's long-term prospects, etc ~ kind of like it sounds like the impression I get of the way Warren Buffett does things.

    What people are doing now is more like frantically popping around like their money is a hammer in a whack-a-mole game. This may have short-term advantages, but it's not particularly in the best interest of anyone, including the investor, long term.
    Well, obviously the current system benefits the select few enormously. For example, if I were to forge ten million dollars worth of perfect copies of $100 bills and give them to you, and you were to buy stuff with them, invest some of them intelligently, and so on, you would benefit tremendously. In time, this counterfeiting would have a predictably inflationary effect and hurt society as a whole, but there would be time lag, and the "culprit" would not be easily identified or blamed. It's always the people who get the forged money first who benefit the most, and there always is a time lag between the initial crime and the impact of that crime...

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Again, I'm simple-minded, and I won't be offended if you don't want to entertain the question, but how can we go bankrupt if there isn't any money to begin with? Our money is not real money. We've BEEN bankrupt. What difference does it make?
    Your question is imperfectly phrased, but as I mentioned a minute ago it takes time for the perception of the "value of a dollar" to catch up with the actual value thereof...

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Detroit has been "dying" for years and years now. This is hardly a secret or new news. Connecting that to Health Care - preposterous!
    In my view it's a great analogy. After all, the future collapse of the American economy and of health care in America is neither a secret nor new news. Yet the effect of this reality on behavior and attitudes is still very minor. As Gary pointed out

    The lesson of Detroit is this: the experts do not see a collapse coming. They assume that next year will be like today, give or take 3%. They do not believe that anything as complex as a city can collapse. So, they believe that things will continue, as they always have. Taxes need not be cut. Spending need not be cut. Schools should be allowed to educate. Tax-funded welfare programs should be increased. When it comes to tax revenues, "there's always more where that came from."

    And then, overnight, the system collapses. The assumptions were wrong

  10. #350
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    In my view it's a great analogy. After all, the future collapse of the American economy and of health care in America is neither a secret nor new news. Yet the effect of this reality on behavior and attitudes is still very minor. As Gary pointed out

    The lesson of Detroit is this: the experts do not see a collapse coming. They assume that next year will be like today, give or take 3%. They do not believe that anything as complex as a city can collapse. So, they believe that things will continue, as they always have. Taxes need not be cut. Spending need not be cut. Schools should be allowed to educate. Tax-funded welfare programs should be increased. When it comes to tax revenues, "there's always more where that came from."

    And then, overnight, the system collapses. The assumptions were wrong
    An economy that based itself almost entirely on industrial manufacturing collapsed when the country moved away from industrial manufacturing.

    That's not unexpected. That's pretty obvious.

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