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  1. #291
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Yeah, free enterprise is immoral, not like Communist dictatorships.
    :rolli: The fact remains, if the Cubans can do it ... with very little resources ... why can't we?

    For-profit health care is perhaps an oxymoron that is unsolvable.

    EDIT: I am researching the whole issue of Cuban health care; there's more than meets the eye, and I am blending this all together. It seems possible there is a two-tier system - where money is still a factor and determines what type of care you will receive.
    Last edited by PeaceBaby; 03-24-2010 at 02:51 PM. Reason: added more info
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #292
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    The casual demonization of entrepreneurs is also really old, and I wasn't the one putting forth Cuba in a positive light in contrast to the United States, using the absence of free enterprise in the former as the basis for doing so.
    I haven't seen nearly as much of that going on in these debates as the opposition to UHC making the socialist comparisons.

    Why would anyone take the risk of citing Cuba when they could demonstrate the effectiveness of UHC with much more acceptable countries, like Canada, Germany, and Japan?. None of those countries have planned and/or command economies, I hope you realize.

    If we use PeaceBaby's reference, she's apparently making a point about how even countries in crappy conditions can do it. It's not the argument you are implying at all.

    And who are these entrepreneurs that are being attacked?
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  3. #293
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    The casual demonization of egomaniacs is really old, because no one likes those pricks, since they're selfish and refuse to share with others. Entrepreneurs happen to be a particularly odious form of egomaniac.
    Yes, this is exactly the attitude and mind-set that I'm talking about. Thank you for illustrating my point.

  4. #294
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Why would anyone take the risk of citing Cuba when they could demonstrate the effectiveness of UHC with much more acceptable countries, like Canada, Germany, and Japan?
    That was actually a large part of my point; no country, no matter how horrible, is without some virtue, but citing Cuba was highly inappropriate. Citing the lack of free enterprise (which is NOT even the same as universal health coverage!) as something praiseworthy is likewise inappropriate.

  5. #295
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    The casual demonization of entrepreneurs is also really old, and I wasn't the one putting forth Cuba in a positive light in contrast to the United States, using the absence of free enterprise in the former as the basis for doing so.
    Demonization of entrepreneurs? I see the demonization of crooks, but entrepreneurs are celebrated. Men like Bill Gates, a real entrepreneur, are generally liked (outside of the anti-Microsoft idiots), while men like Bernie Madoff are the ones being demonized. I'm all for the demonization of crooks.

    Edit: Companies like Citibank and Lehman Bros. were cooking their books, so they fall into the crook category. They absolutely deserve the demonization they are receiving.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #296
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Lowtech, go back and read my post above. You'll understand my intention.

    Instead of leaping to your own conclusions.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #297
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    :rolli: The fact remains, if the Cubans can do it ... with very little resources ... why can't we? :rolli:
    Because there are opportunity costs involved, both now and in the future.

  8. #298
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ what kind of costs?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #299
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Demonization of entrepreneurs? I see the demonization of crooks, but entrepreneurs are celebrated. Men like Bill Gates, a real entrepreneur, are generally liked (outside of the anti-Microsoft idiots), while men like Bernie Madoff are the ones being demonized. I'm all for the demonization of crooks.
    When it is constantly implied that the Bernie Madoff's outnumber the Bill Gates, and each entrepreneur is suspect, then it qualifies as demonization in my book.

  10. #300
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    When it is constantly implied that the Bernie Madoff's outnumber the Bill Gates, and each entrepreneur is suspect, then it qualifies as demonization in my book.
    Implied? Come on. We're in the middle of the worst recession most of us have seen, or ever will see. People have a very tangible reason to be upset with Wall Street. The public wants blood, but there's not enough of it. Instead, these crooks (and yes, they are crooks...Citibank, etc) are giving themselves bonuses with government money.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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