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  1. #261
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann think it's a good idea. And they say this bill will reduce the deficit by a trillion dollars. (Google it because I can't explain how)

    Re Canadian healthcare ... um, some of our Canadian forum members come here for medical advice because they say they can't get to a doctor, the waiting list is so long. That kind of stops my heart.
    It's important to recognize that you cannot generalize that point to "medical care" but rather specific types of non-urgent medical care. When I wanted something as mundane as the BCP to avoid getting my period four weeks later while writing the GRE, I phoned and got an appointment for the next afternoon. If you have a cold/need a doctor's note for something/have a headache, you drop in at a walk-in and get in within two hours or less. All you do is show your provincial health card to prove you live here--no insurance or form issues.

    The wait times are for check-up things with your MD who knows your personal history--we book our routine physicals months in advance, but if you had cause for concern they get you in ASAP.

    The two times I've been to the ER I walked in and saw a doctor immediately (literally never sat down); I've never had wait issues. The only thing I've ever waited for (aside from routine physicals) was two months for a 'scope of my intestines to see why I was sick after Africa. If it was anything serious (I was having GI issues without explanation and I had seen 5 different doctors beforehand) they would move you up the ranks to get attention.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  2. #262
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    It's important to recognize that you cannot generalize that point to "medical care" but rather specific types of non-urgent medical care. When I wanted something as mundane as the BCP to avoid getting my period four weeks later while writing the GRE, I phoned and got an appointment for the next afternoon. If you have a cold/need a doctor's note for something/have a headache, you drop in at a walk-in and get in within two hours or less. All you do is show your provincial health card to prove you live here--no insurance or form issues.

    The wait times are for check-up things with your MD who knows your personal history--we book our routine physicals months in advance, but if you had cause for concern they get you in ASAP.

    The two times I've been to the ER I walked in and saw a doctor immediately (literally never sat down); I've never had wait issues. The only thing I've ever waited for (aside from routine physicals) was two months for a 'scope of my intestines to see why I was sick after Africa. If it was anything serious (I was having GI issues without explanation and I had seen 5 different doctors beforehand) they would move you up the ranks to get attention.
    Good. That sounds more like it!

  3. #263
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    The whole wait-times is a scare-tactic used to promote fear in American hearts.

    Reality:

    I can see any doctor I choose (as long as they have space on their patient roster) and any specialist I choose with a referral from my family doctor.

    I never get a bill for their services (well, you do pay to have the TV or phone in your room at the hospital if you want it).

    If I need urgent care, I will eligible to receive it as soon as I get to the hospital.

    End of file.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #264
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Good. That sounds more like it!
    Do you think you should be able to see a dermatologist (for example) within a week of referral?

    What time frame do you think is appropriate, tilty?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #265
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    I know you were not stupid enough to fall for that, but I really am amazed by how many people genuinely believe that. And not all of those folks are I AM SAM "Full Retards." Semi-retards, perhaps. But no webbed hands, no constant drooling, capable of ordering a sandwich while smiling...
    I have my doubts about it actually saving us money. But the current situation (pre-reform) is unsustainable. Medicare costs have been going up far too quickly. One of the big problems has been coordination of care, which this bill tries to address.

    Unless we were to completely eliminate all health insurance, forcing EVERYONE pay out of pocket, for everything, the free market is not going to get costs under control.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I have my doubts about it actually saving us money. But the current situation (pre-reform) is unsustainable. Medicare costs have been going up far too quickly. One of the big problems has been coordination of care, which this bill tries to address.

    Unless we were to completely eliminate all health insurance, forcing EVERYONE pay out of pocket, for everything, the free market is not going to get costs under control.
    Of course the current system sucks. This bill will drive costs up faster than the current system, however. Not every piece of legislation is "reform"--least likely of all those labeled "reform."

  7. #267
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    I'm willing to wait and see.

    Teddy Roosevelt, FDR, Truman, Kennedy, LBJ, Nixon, and Clinton all tried to pass a health care bill. They can't all be wrong...

  8. #268
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fecal McAngry View Post
    Of course the current system sucks. This bill will drive costs up faster than the current system, however. Not every piece of legislation is "reform"--least likely of all those labeled "reform."
    Just because you say that it will drive costs up faster does not mean that it will. I disagree with your assessment. I think that it will retard the cost growth. I'm still not sure that it will actually reduce costs.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Just because you say that it will drive costs up faster does not mean that it will. I disagree with your assessment. I think that it will retard the cost growth. I'm still not sure that it will actually reduce costs.
    It's pretty easy to see that it will drive up costs faster than the current system, just look at what it does, piece by piece, and what it promises. For example, who has the most financial incentive to limit health care spending, now? The poor. Illegal aliens. Those without insurance. Suddenly, they are added to the Gov't Free Lunch. What helps keep ins. rates down? The ability to exclude those with pre-existing conditions. What happens to ins. rates when those individuals are added? They skyrocket. But aren't the healthy going to be required to get health ins. to somewhat offset this? Legally, yes, but the fines are lower than the cost of health ins.--by quite a bit, a lot of healthy people will not buy insurance. And who is going to enforce compliance? The IRS. Do they have the current capacity to do that? No. What about price controls, won't they help? The price controls would force a large number of Dr.'s to refuse to accept the newly added folks, retire early, cause people to avoid medicine as a career. So what will happen to said price controls? They will never come into being or will be reversed very quickly. And so on...

  10. #270
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    So ... what then? Do you suspect the Democrats are trying to ruin the country, since it's so obvious this bill will send us straight into financial ruin?

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