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  1. #241
    insert random title here Randomnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Exactly what medical condition do you have that is so expensive that doubling your income but losing public health care results in a net economic loss? And as a Canadian citizen, can't you just move back to Canada if whatever you fear occurring should occur? Whatever the advantages and disadvantages of our respective national systems, your rationale just doesn't seem to make any rational sense in terms of your own situation...
    It's not a matter of money. I'm aware that assuming I saved rationally and had a good income, I would be able to handle most medical situations (though probably not all, depending on my insurance I assume).

    It's the stress of worrying about things happening, having to deal with the logistics of paying for it (paperwork, fighting with insurance companies, etc) while also dealing with the medical issue, and then after I've paid, worrying about it depleting my savings and possibly leaving me vulnerable if some other emergency happens. My emotional well-being is worth more to me than the extra salary..I just don't think extra money would have a more positive effect on quality of life than the added stress. And then if I lose my job, that's enough stress without worrying about losing my associated health insurance at the same time. I don't want to get pregnant and worry about whether the child will need expensive medical care throughout life. Etc. This may not be rational if you consider cold hard cash the most important thing in life, but I know that I would stress about these things.

    I would also not want to deal with the stress of moving/paperwork of moving back when ill. Not to mention some medical emergencies simply can't be postponed 6 weeks, and these are often the expensive ones (surgery, etc). It also seems wrong to me to take advantage of the Canadian system in such a way. If I'm not paying for it through taxes/etc, it's not fair to those who are.

    To me the extra money is just not worth it, though of course everyone has different priorities and so far the states has catered to priorities different than mine.
    -end of thread-

  2. #242
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    ^ have you ever watched this Halla?

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7pCaK0aASE"]SICKo - Michael Moore[/YOUTUBE]

    It's emotional for sure, brings tears to my eyes. But it really brings the human element into play, and is an unvarnished look at the existing situation.
    I like this documentary, but I wouldn't exactly call anything M.M. does unvarnished. I especially have doubts about the whole Cuban part of it. I would not want to be treated in Cuba personally.
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  3. #243
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aphrodite-gone-awry View Post
    I like this documentary, but I wouldn't exactly call anything M.M. does unvarnished. I especially have doubts about the whole Cuban part of it. I would not want to be treated in Cuba personally.
    Right, MM is a drama queen but there are so many parts of this film that you can't deny even after you've sifted though his bs. It's embarrassing for me as I have European relatives who can't believe the health care situation in the US. Is any system perfect? No, but there has to be a better way.
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  4. #244
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ amended to unvarnished emotional look; but it breaks my heart to watch it again. I pray we stay healthy while we are here.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #245
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    ^ amended; but it breaks my heart to watch it again. I pray we stay healthy while we are here.
    True. We live not far from the Canadian border and have thought a LOT about moving there, not just for health care, but for our perceived camaraderie of the people and society. But, like Magic says, it's just not that easy to uproot. We love Montana, it's still pretty pristine here. And why should Canada have to endure America's economic mistakes?
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    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

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  6. #246
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann think it's a good idea. And they say this bill will reduce the deficit by a trillion dollars. (Google it because I can't explain how)

    Re Canadian healthcare ... um, some of our Canadian forum members come here for medical advice because they say they can't get to a doctor, the waiting list is so long. That kind of stops my heart.

  7. #247
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    To me the extra money is just not worth it, though of course everyone has different priorities and so far the states has catered to priorities different than mine.
    Fair enough, though I would be too worried about the unsustainable nature of public health insurance for it to provide me with long-term stress-relief.

  8. #248
    failure to thrive AphroditeGoneAwry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann think it's a good idea. And they say this bill will reduce the deficit by a trillion dollars. (Google it because I can't explain how)

    Re Canadian healthcare ... um, some of our Canadian forum members come here for medical advice because they say they can't get to a doctor, the waiting list is so long. That kind of stops my heart.
    The best emergency room experience of my life was in Calgary, and it involved my toddler.
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    The more one loves God, the more it is that having nothing in the world means everything, and the less one loves God, the more it is that having everything in the world means nothing.

    Do not resist an evil person, but to him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer also the other. ~Matthew 5:39

    songofmary.wordpress.com


  9. #249
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Re Canadian healthcare ... um, some of our Canadian forum members come here for medical advice because they say they can't get to a doctor, the waiting list is so long. That kind of stops my heart.
    There are longer waits for certain issues - my mom just found out she'll need a hysterectomy, and she won't see the gynecologist until the end of April. So, 4 or 5 weeks, then her surgery will be scheduled. She has a stage 2 prolapse; if she had stage 3 it would have meant a shorter wait.

    Myself, I have had surgeries, waited about 6 weeks for each part - first to see the specialist, and then to get the surgery.

    Waiting is hard. But really, those waits don't seem unreasonable to me, although at the time, thinking about the surgery and anticipating it was challenging.

    But, I had a kidney stone and infection last year - saw the Dr. the same day, CAT scan the day after that. If you need immediate help, it is there.

    Ontario has wait-time targets - a big focus right now is to meet these targets:

    Ontario Wait Times Targets:

    Cataract Surgery
    Priority I: Immediate
    Priority II: 6 weeks
    Priority III: 12 weeks
    Priority IV: 26 weeks

    Hip/Knee Replacement
    PI: Immediate
    PII: 6 weeks
    PIII: 12 weeks
    PIV: 26 weeks

    Cardiac-Bypass Surgery
    PI: Immediate
    PII: 2 weeks
    PIII: 6 weeks
    PIV: 26 weeks

    MRI/CT Scans
    PI: Immediate
    PII: 48 hours
    PIII: 2 - 10 days
    PIV: 4 weeks

    Cancer Surgery
    PI: Immediate
    PII: 2 weeks
    PIII: 4 weeks
    PIV: 12 weeks
    -----------------------------------------------

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Fair enough, though I would be too worried about the unsustainable nature of public health insurance for it to provide me with long-term stress-relief.
    It's been working and will continue to work because UHC is embraced with such a passion. It is like votes for women - no one would dare to say now that women shouldn't vote. Tell a Brit or Canadian you're taking away UHC - never going to happen. Not anytime soon.

    Peace of mind is a great thing; don't under-rate it.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann think it's a good idea. And they say this bill will reduce the deficit by a trillion dollars.
    That's astounding. Some people simply are not living in reality...

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