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  1. #231
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    @lowtech:

    In moving here, we are not allowed to keep our OHIP coverage - our health care plan in Ontario. We get it upon moving back (after we have been back in Ontario for 6 weeks; it's not like you can just drive back across the border and suddenly you are covered again), and we are only granted emergency short-term coverage now if we were to fall ill while visiting or traveling in Canada.

    In making the choice for my husband to accept this assignment here, we had to make a very careful comparison of the health care plans available to us. We picked the most expensive and comprehensive one offered.

    I could share more, but any long-term medical condition requiring the regular use of medication costs at least 50 - 75% more to manage here in the US. I gave my example earlier - one asthma inhaler - $90 vs $260. With a 20% co-pay, that inhaler still costs me $52 here vs $18 in Canada.

    It feels almost dangerous to be here if you had no coverage.

    Seriously.

    Sometimes I think most people who oppose the concept of UHC are people who have never been ill.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #232
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Fear doesn't make any rational sense. I understand perfectly what Randomnity is talking about, I wouldn't want to live with the stress of needing an higher income when I'm ill - exactly the moment when my income is likely to be at its lowest.
    The risks are very low, the potential rewards great, and the worst-case scenario nullified by the proximity of the Canadian border. Even if he is forced to close up shop in the United States due to an expensive illness, he would have greater capital/experience/etc upon his return to Canada. Where's the stress?

  3. #233
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    The risks are very low, the potential rewards great, and the worst-case scenario nullified by the proximity of the Canadian border. Even if he is forced to close up shop in the United States due to an expensive illness, he would have greater capital/experience/etc upon his return to Canada. Where's the stress?
    You can't explain-rationalize these things away, if there's stress, it's there.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #234
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    We get it upon moving back (after we have been back in Ontario for 6 weeks
    Six weeks is not that long; if his income is doubled, he can just save up his own personal insurance to cover the interim period.

  5. #235
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ we are covered by his plan for that duration of that transition period when we move back to Canada.

    But the POINT is that if you needed emergency surgery, waiting 6 weeks is not a realistic option. You can't just get sick here in the US, drive back to Ontario and get picked back up by the plan immediately.

    The intention of that is to prevent such abuse.

    If you racked up a $100000 hospital bill, it would take a heck of a long time to pay that back.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  6. #236
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    You can't explain-rationalize these things away, if there's stress, it's there.
    Heh. I have severe obsessive-compulsive disorder, so I know that all too well. I usually assume that people without an anxiety disorder are usually able to put aside irrational fears after careful and deliberate consideration (as opposed to continuing to feel fear that the stove still isn't turned off after already checking it 30 times ), but their initial fears might prevent them from doing so.

  7. #237
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Sometimes I think most people who oppose the concept of UHC are people who have never been ill.
    This statement is probably correct.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #238
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Most of the people I know irl that oppose UHC have been sick and are un-insured, under-insured, or already receive government run health care in some form, but they have fallen victim to scare tactics.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #239
    Artisan Conquerer Halla74's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Most of the people I know irl that oppose UHC have been sick and are un-insured, under-insured, or already receive government run health care in some form, but they have fallen victim to scare tactics.
    The gamut is far and wide of how the various players in the great health care drama have played the game.

    Rx companies and hospital advocacy groups (aka "lobbyists") formulate scare tactics as Cafe mentioned.

    HMOs used to entice Medicaid recipients with free movie tickets for enrolling in a managed care plan, but that kind of marketing was soon made illegal.

    It puzzles me that it still appears to be so difficult for a pro-citizen, public policy think tank to prepare a report on this issue and get it covered on a prime time news show. Is air time that hard to come by? Has no such effort been undertaken as of yet?

    All we seem to hear are varying shades of biased BS.
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  10. #240
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ have you ever watched this Halla?

    [YOUTUBE="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7pCaK0aASE"]SICKo - Michael Moore[/YOUTUBE]

    It's emotional for sure, brings tears to my eyes. But it really brings the human element into play, and is an unvarnished, emotional look at the existing situation.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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