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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I appreciate that America is a nation that values the individual over the collective. I respect that freedom to live your life as you choose is fundamental to the national ethos.

    However people forget that the belief in individual freedom in America is based on a best case scenario and assumes that all Americans are equal. That freedom of choice can be restricted by many circumstances - poverty being a major one. The 'freedoms' and 'choices' the poor in America have in regards to health care are false ones. How can you choose between insurance you can't afford and risking your family's health and financial future? Where is the freedom in that choice?

    I have been told by an American that the present (well, past) system provides the best care. Really what she means is it provides the best care for some people but limited to no care for many others. How are the individual rights of the poor being respected when you deny them a basic necessity due to, what is likely to be, an pure accident of birth? What this appears to be is a case where the rights of the wealthy are valued over those of the poor.

    Even if that 'best care' is to be lost it would still be worth it. To be honest, I prefer that ideal care for the few be sacrificed for mediocre care for all. I don't want to live in a society where whether you live or die is decided by how rich you are.

    Anyway, I have been following this issue for years and must say how wonderful it is to see real progress! I just want to say well done to the Americans. This is a special moment in US history and you all should feel proud. Regardless of what you believe, I truly hope you will see and feel the benefits of the new bill; that it will lead to a fairer and better system for everyone; and that it will help to truly bring greater liberty and autonomy to all Americans
    Unfortunately, the American system = a terrible combo of capitalism and socialism. Yesterday, yet another (large) step was taken away from freedom and toward slavery. As is typically the case, in the two least free segments of the U.S. economy--health care and education--the problems caused by gov't intervention are invariably blamed on capitalism, the solution embraced by the public and politicians alike is more gov't, and the cycle repeats itself ad infinitum.

    In yesterday's idiocy, for example, the problem of the lack of connection between health care consumer and health care provider was never addressed--except to reduce the usefulness of Health Savings Accounts which allow consumers to save money to use for their health care costs. In a free system of exchange, if I want, say, three toppings on my pizza as opposed to two or none, I pay more. With health care in the American system, provided I can pay for insurance premiums--which now will be subsidized for a large portion of society, there is little incentive to reduce my healthcare costs, particularly if I have met my deductible and am charged a flat rate for Rx medications...

    Anecdote: When I was being treated for hep c, one of the drugs I was using was Neupogen, which is massively expensive--roughly $300 per rediject. Initially we tried three shots per week, then after a bit of experimentation, moved me to one. My doctor made a note of this and this info was passed onto my insurance co and to the company that was shipping me my meds via FedEx in a large cooler box...

    As you can guess, they never got the message about the change in my Rx. For months thereafter I was sent an additional $600/week of Neupogen. I informed the parties involved, but none of them had any real incentive to not waste $600/week sending me this drug. I didn't, as it cost me the same flat rate regardless. The company sending me the Neupogen didn't, as they got reimbursed by the insurance company. And while the insurance company theoretically had some short term motive for not wasting money, the telephone reps certainly didn't, and in the long term, they could always raise rates on unsuspecting customers...

    Under the Obama fiasco just passed, more people are invited to the all-you-can-eat Gov't healthcare trough, but the attempts at cost control are absurd and ass-backwards--cutting reimbursement rates to providers, for example...

  2. #162
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YourLocalJesus View Post
    Healthcare is just one of those things that should just be obvious.
    When you enjoy the privilege of such a benefit, you would certainly agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Tell me, who do you think Canadian representatives fear more; their constituents or their party leadership?
    Most care about keeping their constituents happy, like every other elected representative of government. People come knocking when things aren't to their liking!

    Each party does have a philosophy and thus support of the party dynamic does come into play. But, do you think each party member is just a puppet to the whatever the hierarchy dictates? Then you haven't followed Canadian politics much!

    Freedom of speech is a constitutional right in Canada too ...

    Why use a word like "fear" except to try to discredit the Canadian system of government with such language?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
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  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Big business, like any concentration of power in our political system, can only perform at its best when (reasonably) regulated.

    The rub lies in knowing what regulation is reasonable, and what isn't.
    In the last financial crisis none of our banks required a bail-out and remained well capitalized.

    Yet our banking system has been deregulated and operates in the global free market.

    Still, we do maintain prudent rules.

  4. #164
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenINsFJ View Post
    True.
    The US is barely in the top 10 for richest countries in the world. We are on verge of getting kicked from our AAA rating. There is NO responsibility from one class to another. That attitude/mentality breeds and fosters laziness. There is no such thing as entitlement. America offers opportunities for people to go from rags to riches through hard work, not to survive and suck off those who work.
    Raising taxes is a terrible solution. I don't even need to explain why because it's obvious you're not at any level of being able to comprehend why that's bad.
    I don't understand. So all the people that work their butts off, doing 16hr days, 7 days a week, scrubbing floors or cleaning toilets while single-handedly raising a family, just need to work harder, THEN they'll acheive success? You're living in a fantasy world, mate. Success is just as much about luck as hard work. You may prefer that success and happiness be determined by a roulette wheel but I think its better to reduce the odds and the payout and have them be more acheivable.

  5. #165
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tenINsFJ View Post
    The US is barely in the top 10 for richest countries in the world. We are on verge of getting kicked from our AAA rating.
    Where did you get that? The USA has the highest GDP in the world. If you look at GDP PC, we don't have the highest, but most of the countries higher than us are tiny, and their GDP PC figures are misleading. It's easier to drum that kind of figure up with few people.

    Quote Originally Posted by tenINsFJ View Post
    There is NO responsibility from one class to another. That attitude/mentality breeds and fosters laziness. There is no such thing as entitlement. America offers opportunities for people to go from rags to riches through hard work, not to survive and suck off those who work.
    Hmm... The developed world seems to prove you wrong. All of these laziness fostering policies you dislike hasn't killed the economy of the EU members, or Japan and Taiwan, or Canada, etc....

    Furthermore, the USA where you pull yourself up by your boot straps is mostly fantasy. It does not and did not exist. Your chances of working your way up to success are probably equally as high if not higher in Germany.

    Your whole post was mostly cliche talking points.

    Quote Originally Posted by tenINsFJ View Post
    Raising taxes is a terrible solution. I don't even need to explain why because it's obvious you're not at any level of being able to comprehend why that's bad.
    Very convenient assessment.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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  6. #166
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    There is no monolithic business interest, but no monolith is required for the interests of big business to be in direct conflict with the interest of the American people, in general.
    And what is/are the interest(s) of the American people which the various interests of big business (which apparently don't inherently conflict with each other under this paradigm) are in direct conflict with?

    Disputing the degree of power which corporations hold in relation to government actors is hardly the same thing as denying the power of corporations.

  7. #167
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    There is a significant difference between economy, money, and wealth.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    When you enjoy the privilege of such a benefit, you would certainly agree.
    Yes, I live under universal health care and I couldn't be happier.

    I have free access to my General Practitioner five days a week, with no waiting time.

    I receive the best in Specialist care. My pharmaceuticals are subsidised, along with spectacles, dentistry, psychologist and physiotherapy.

    I am well treated at all times and enjoy my interactions with the health system.

  9. #169
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Most care about keeping their constituents happy, like every other elected representative of government.
    Actually, most elected representatives of government in liberal democracies across the globe do not operate in the context of single-member districts, making centralized corporatist oligarchies all but inevitable. Be that as it may, comparative politics literature consistently depicts political parties within Canada as much more "disciplined" (don't you love euphemisms?) than is the case within the United States. I suppose extremely specific philosophical agreement with the rest of the party combined with an apparent lack of regional, much less district-based differentiation in aggregate constituent opinion is certainly one theoretically possible explanation for this phenomenon, but I'm doubtful.

    And my use of the term "fear" has nothing to do with portraying Canadian institutions in a negative light; its another term for "accountability," and its the reason so many Democrats did not wish to support the recent Health-care bill.

  10. #170
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    This is disgusting.

    It's all the same vomit chewed over and over again.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

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